Things you think are 'wrong' with wolfy type crosses/new 'breeds'? Discussions

Better understanding or an opportunity to slate?[/QUOTE]

I cant see any slating here, a yes or no would suffice

Efes, I suggest you join the NIS forum as you are so consumed in defending them.

re Jk satating about no health issues. When you join the forum, trawl the health section, you may still find where she says "if you buy a NIS registered NI, they wont have Epilepsy!!" Of course if its not there anymore (which I doubt it is, all the serious stuff got deleted) you only have my word for it!

I'm not good at figures and percentages so this is general.

How many CKC's are there in the UK? Seems to me there are an awful lot but thats beside the point. 40% is a shocking figure. Just under half of the amount of CKC's bred here are unhealthy.

So, out of only 73 wolfie looking dogs here on the forum 12 (I think) are showing some sort of health problem although not all serious. Thats not good in such a young breed. We will probably never know how many wolfie dogs are in the UK so can only go by what has been shown on here. Thats 1 out of 6 dogs that has a health problem. It might be either higher or lower with real figures but hey, its still a problem.

Pedigree's could be and probably are wrong. The one for my boy shows shocking inbreeding. In reality it could be better or worse depending on where the pedigree is wrong and why. No-one seems to know for certain so why take the chance and possibly make things worse by breeding dogs that may/may not have uncertain pedigree's.
I could choose a nice bitch for my male to stand stud. Pedigree's are fairly different from each other but the reality may mean they are closer bred than it looks. That worries me and makes me glad my boy is neutered.

OK then, if they are that unreliable, you should throw them in the bin and call your dog whatever breed you like. I've made my points about inbreeding, but it obviously never happened in the NI so I apologise for bringing it up. Just as an aside though, if the pedigrees are enough for you to call these dogs 'breeds', you should probably employ some outcrossing, just to make sure..

So to summarise my points:

If the NI pedigrees are genuine, then the inbreeding worries me. For further info, read some reliable info on population genetics.

If the NI pedigrees are not genuine, then how do you know you have a breed? And why not outcross occasionally anyway to ensure your 'breed' remains healthy until the genepool is large enough to consider closing it? Again, read up on population genetics.

Is SC still using the pedigrees going back to what was recored on the NIS database? If so, why would she have deliberately messed up her own dogs' pedigrees?[/QUOTE]

Not sure what pedigrees shes using but she got her dogs from JK so she has a motive wouldnt you say ... Also she doesnt want to breed NI any longer as she has no society or association to register with thats why she wants to see their demise and start a whole new breed using the bitches she has left which carry epilepsy and heamophillia crossing with the Sarloos she has apparently just bought.

Gosh, I wish all wishy-washy opinions were as well backed-up, documented and accepted as those on population genetics.

That's another point of course - with certain people that have set up puppy farms away from the breed clubs, who knows what health problems will come from them? They will be sold to unknowing people who might go and breed from them ... :-( I realise that this happens with all breeds too though.

That's the problem with untrue pedigrees - if they are hiding inbreeding or line health issues, people may go off and breed from their dog without realising the potential implications.

I think anyone doubting SC should realise by putting these pedigrees up she also looks bad but has admitted her mistakes and trying to do right.

You love a good mystery Joking apart, I had the same problems too as you know, and I am sure there are many, many others, who had to play detective, Though ,sometimes you do find things out, you wish you hadn't:-(

This inbreeding isn't just confined to N.I's but to Utes, I don't really know much about B.I's, but suspect they are just the same too.

I think these dogs have had a huge injustice, they deserve so much better than some of the muppets who are breeding them!

Ok Lionhound yes I have two NI and they have embrossed pedigrees which don't add up to the ones Sandra put up which is why I question them. I used to have 3 Border terriers but when i split with my ex he took them with him as they were his dogs which was heart breaking. My mum has had NI for years.None of our dogs have had any health issues to date.

Exactly!! Thanks LS, you have said it all much better than I could. I'm glad someone understood what I was trying to say

You'd think so - it took me long enough to get to the bottom of it!

My thoughts exactly!

How old are they?

Sneaks back in whilst waiting for the missues to finsih work



Ah, that was only an example, I'm actually aking a a Greek Adonis

I am the kind of person who collects as much information from as many sources as i can before making informed decisions, it takes a long time. What i do know is i dont trust JK but that is after 7 months of knowing her online persona. Sandra ive only known a couple of weeks, ask me in 7 months what i think as i have yet to form an overall opinion of her.

If you're going to count things like a tummy rash then the average for any breed is probably around 70% Out of the 12 some were for the same dog. Some were too young to know whether it was a problem or not.

Can you elaborate on this a bit? What do you consider shocking?

Well said.

To be honest I'm not sure either can be totally trusted. They each seem to cancel eachother out in claims and counter claims, so I don't think quoting either constitues proof.

I don't think you'll find anyone who will argue with that, it's a damn shame. If they'd only kept decent records then this thread would have been over within a few posts. As it is there's not a lot that you can trust, so no-one can prove anything.

This of course is true of a lot of breeds, not ust wolfy ones.

I'm not good at averages. If you remove the 1 with tummy rash it still works out at 1 out of 6 dogs which to me is still too many. As I said though, thats only going by the ones on here.