Things you think are 'wrong' with wolfy type crosses/new 'breeds'? Discussions

Yes people are, but it's the same people all the time. You say huge quantities, can you make an educated guess as to what that figure is? Out of the thousands of wolfy dogs around how many are diseased?

Totally agree, yet I've heard of one being put up, then it being used out of context to try and enforce an opinion. Plus owners are blamed of secrecy if they won't deign to share the details of their dogs death. I'd say to them, please prove to me that there is a reason I should share this info.

In that case how do you justify making bold sweeping statements such as huge quantities of diseased dogs? What's that statement based on?

Even the percentage of these posts on this forum compared to the owners of this forum is small. According to the thread a few weeks back, only 2 or 3 owners/breeders reported health problems with their dogs, and that was out of 58 (I think). That to me says there isn't a problem.

Sorry I apologise, it was actually a doctor who told me. Mmm, don't want to be treated by them.

Can you tell me how many several is? Is it 3 or 23?

It also seems to be common in GSDs according to a forum on GSDs, maybe that's where it came from?

There is no need to get personally abusive

I personally dont feel there was a need for a wolf lookalike? I* think the original breedings were irrisponsible and not thought out, the original breeders seemed to have an idea to breed dogs that looked like wolves, and the fact that it was done in such a way (no record keeping) brings to mind that they were not serious about trying to develope a "new breed" its as if they had two dogs that bred and THEN decided to say that they were trying to get wolf lookalike because of what they produced initially I feel people have fallen for the propaganda behind the breed, I dont know how many people I have met that have dogs from the same type of mixes stating to me they have "wolf" in their dogs, because others have jumped on the bandwaggon and breeding similar crosses now, the public have been very gullible over the whole issue I feel. there is far too much secrecy about the history of this "breed" anyone else that specifically goes out to produce a new breed would have meticulous records to prove how the breed developed because if they set out to eventually have a recognised breed the proof would be required, so I feel this breed was brought about by someone (who ever it was) messing about and seeing what came out of it all, and subsequently many owners are confused as to who and what is behind their dogs. what other breed can we honestly say that the majority of the dogs dont REALLY know the parantage? in other breeds there is a possibility that a breeder may falsifiy details for whatever reason, but that would not relate to the WHOLE breed, it would only relate to the dogs in that particular breeders lines.

Mo

Hi Mo, yes this has been said before on this thread, but I could say that about numerous breeds. Take the JRT, there seems to be three distinct types of them, why? What's the point? Take all the terriers, they pretty much do the same job, so what's the point in the variety? Don't get me wrong, you're entitled to your opinion, and I haven't a problem with that, but I don't think that it's something that can be put down as a wrongness in the breeds.

Aye you're probably right here, I think that there is definitely something wrong with the records, they do seem contradictory, and I'm not sure how this can be rectified.

OK I'm off to work. I can't wait to see the posts tonight when I get back. Looking forward to all the proof.

1. No health checks done on original mating pair
2. No single organisation in control over the breeding/registration
3. At least 1 Re-home centre that re-homes 'entire' dogs - is this wrong?
4. 1 line of epilepsy - confirmed by owner
5. Inaccurate records, not trustworthy

Conjecture:

1. Too much in-breeding - facts & figures please, how much is too much
2. High percentage of health problems - what's a high percentage, and what is it

Please don't post pedigrees, you've already said these cannot be trusted, therefore how can they be used to prove anything?

By all means post opinion, if it's backed up by some sort of proof e.g. huge numbers = how many is that?

I also don't own or want to own any of the wolfy type dogs but I do have a rather extreme dislike of them being bred, I have no idea what if any problems there are within the breed but having seen so many problems within other breeds I would have thought any breeder of a new breed would do their utmost not to end up as some breeds are at the moment and if they have not/are not doing so they should be banned from owning dogs.

Analyzing my reaction when I see these dogs I think (I may be alone of course) they trigger a very ancient fear of wolves, I cannot get out of my head that they may harm me or my dogs. No other entire breed causes this reaction within me.

My post doesn't help I know but may help explain the general publics reaction to them

Yes, the owner!!

I take it you missed this

Any opinion?

Managed to sneak in during work

Yes, I have seen that reaction, but my experience is that most people adore my fella, and will cross the street to come and see him. Each to their own I suppose.

Hi, no I didn't miss it. I just couldn't make up my mind whether this is a wrongness in the breed. Being difficult to train certainly isn't retricted to wolfy dogs, and is it a problem with the breed? I'd think it becomes a problem if the wrong owner has one, but that's an owner thing not the dog.

Personally my fella is as stubborn as a mule, but he's been easy to train. By that I mean he knows the commands. I know this a recognised trait in all the northern dogs, not just the wolfy ones, so I'm inclined to think this isn't a wrongness, it's a characteristic.

I think it is wrongness in the breed when the standard states they should be friendly and placid.

I don`t have a fear of wolves - I think they`re wonderful - which is why I have this gut feeling that these wolf look-alikes are `wrong`. I have friends who are into the whole Native American / wild spirit / totemic thing - and they also can`t see why anyone would want a `tame` wolf. It`s NOT a wolf. It may well have a bit of wolf in it`s ancestry - but so does Mrs Smith`s Bichon Frise down the road. It doesn`t make it anything more or less than a x-breed without a clear purpose - except to make money for breeders, it seems.
I can fully understand breeding for a dog who would do a particular work, or maybe breeding small dogs etc. as they are more in demand. But to breed a dog that pretends to be what it`s not (a wild animal) seems (struggling for non-judgemental word) pointless.

Well I don't see a pattern from just this. What you've said is one dog has died due to fits. Does that mean there's a trend? No.

Where has the parentage come from? One of those pedigrees that can't be trusted?

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that one post doesn't prove there's a problem with the whole breed, and that post doesn't prove much.

Ah, that's a completely different statement than difficult to train. My fella is very friendly and quite placid (except the first 5 minutes of his morning walk) generally.

Are you suggesting that they are not friendy or placid?

And whose standard? That is certainly one of the problems, there is no one organisation in control of the breed or it's standards.

Struggling to find different ways of answering this. This is an opinion, of which you're entitled to have of course. But it doesn't prove any wrongness in the breed. I could make the same judgement against a whole host of dog breeds, what's the point of the Bedlington Terrier? It doesn't even look like a dog, why would anyone want one. Any answers to those questions could also be applied to the wolfy breeds.

Hopefully that answer's a bit more tolerant

Hopefully when someone is choosing a breed of dog they will research and be able to be informed of positive and negatives within the breed. If I read a breed standard for NI's from the NIS and saw the words placid and friendly I would take it to mean exactly that. So to see so many threads on e collars and prong collars and even the president stating where to get prong collars cheap contradicts this.
This in my eyes pionts to a problem either with breeding the wrong temprement or they are being miss sold by breeders who are not doing the right thing for their dogs:?

Possibly
But a Bedlington isn`t pretending to be a sheep. There seems to be a cachet among these breeds in having an implied recent link to wolf ancestry. This is what repels me.

Good Morning
I would just like to say (a private message is a private message to me & i will not post anything relating to them on the board) However to those few recent one's if you dont have the balls to post information that may be helpful on the board regarding a thread i dont want to see it in p.m so please dont involve me or expect me to feel sorry for you on any level, i dont.

I see your point here, they seem by & large placid & friendly however characteristics are also Husky like & yes, that information should be available to people researching the breed so prospective owners can make an informed choice . Efes do you think it would be fair to add to your list something along the lines of that there traits are not well advertized or described very well ect?
Also do you think it should be added that the look / appearance varies so much?

Also to add, I have nothing against challanging dogs, have one myself and it is part of his charm