Things you think are 'wrong' with wolfy type crosses/new 'breeds'? Discussions

and their owners are very intolerant

Ho hum, maybe I am being touchy. I am getting frustrated because as per the op this thread is supposed to be about factual things that are wrong with the wolfy breed.

I totally agree DNA testing is a great idea, and I think it should be done. It will also help as you say to eliminate any genetic issues. But, and for me it's a big but, it's being used for the argument that there is a problem in genetic lines. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. Where is the factual proof that there is a problem? That seems to be something that isn't getting answered, at least not with anything to back up statements.

Sorry, what does this mean?

Well, for example, short of me going off now and getting written statements from everyone I know who has been affected by epilepsy in my dog's lines, I'm afraid you'll have to take my word for it. I only recently discovered that his aunt died in status epilepticus within a couple of weeks of starting to have fits. This was before my lad. It is well known that epilepsy can be genetic so a breeder of her experience would have known that this was a possibility but she did not deign to tell me - in fact she denied that there were any eplieptics in his lines. There is a high incidence of epilepsy in his lines and she should not have used them.

People get frustrated because it is only after many years of frank denial that health issues are getting discussed and being put out in the open.

OK, so there is a line with epilepsy in it, by the way I'm very sorry to hear that, I hope your lad stays well.

You say there is a high incidence of epilepsy, what's this based on? Do you have any numbers? One of the pups in my fella's litter died of epilepsy, but only one, and there's been another litter with no episodes of it as yet. That's a very low percentage, and could be just one of those things.

I'm not trying to make light of this, I'm just trying to get some hard facts, or at least some educated guesses. I'm also not denying that there may be health issues, I'd just like to try and ascertain how big the issues are.

Thanks.
The person responsible for health and database records of The Utonagan Assocation has been researching the health for years and has data on dogs involved in his background who have developed epilepsy or bred litters with epileptic dogs and I believe that the other breed clubs are/have been doing similar. She (of TUA) would be able to give you more details as she did with me. I am in personal contact with three other people whose epileptic dogs have common relatives with mine.

So now we have a few wrong things:

1. No health checks done on original mating pair
2. No single organisation in control over the breeding/registration
3. At least 1 Re-home centre that re-homes 'entire' dogs - is this wrong?
4. Dubious pedigrees
5. 1 line with genetic disorder (epilepsy) still being bred from -

Out of the above I'd be curious to know:

1) was this done for every other breed
3) is this restricted to just wolfy dogs?
4) definitely a problem in lots of breeds
5) also still a problem with other breeds

I for one am still not convinced that there is reason for the vitriol against these breeds. Has anyone else got any facts that they can share? Please don't pm, if it's a fact then there shouldn't be any reason not to post it.

Yes, The BIDC are doing similar, at least there seems to be a few good breeders out there.

OK, so far the facts we've had of what's wrong with the wolfy breed are:

No health checks done on original mating pair

No single organisation in control over the breeding/registration

At least 1 Re-home centre that re-homes 'entire' dogs - is this wrong?

Founder of breed and current chairperson of NIS has 2 cruelty convictions and 1is for cruelty to dogs and was giving a 5 year ban.

Severe in breeding ( proof can be seen elsewhere Pm me for link)

Tumours and aggression in certain lines (also Pm me proof elsewhere).

1 line with genetic disorder (epilepsy) still being bred from

You are persistant

OK, say I'm a breeder and I beat my dog senseless every day, and get a cruelty conviction. Does that affect the puppies that that dog will produce? I don't think so, it may have a nasty temperament, but that wont be a genetic thing. The dog may not even be that healthy from a physical point of view, but unless it has a genetic disorder there's not a lot I can do to it to make it produce pups that are wrong, yes I know this is not quite strictly true. Your argument is about the person, not the dog and keeping a dog in a cage with crap around it will not affect the breed.

Again the same old stuff. If it's fact why wont you post it? Where are the figures that prove this?

Here's a question for all. All breeds seem to have something wrong in them, none unfortunately seem to be problem free. So if the wrong things in the wolfy breeds are also in other breeds are they really a wrongness specific to the wolfy breed? In other words should this read "what's wrong with the wolfy breed specifically?"

Just read the above, and whilst I think it makes sense you'd better read it while sober or you've no hope

Keep posted Efes, you are a breath of fresh air and are saying everything I would like to say if only I knew how to say it. The words 'specifically' wrong with wolf like breeds is excellent.
I have had KC reg dobies in the past, 2 of them I bought turned out to have pedigrees that were fabricated at the far end of a 16 gen pedigree.When I queried as to how this could happen I was told that they would have been reg using a 5 gen pedigree which was spot on correct, the KC never saw the fabricated bits on the pedigrees which were given to me, well they did actually as I was not pleased!!! So dodgy pedigrees not confined to the 'wolf like' dogs then. Again my dobies all suffered eventually from a back problem, which my vet told me was probably genetic. They can also have VWD. After seeing the Pedigree Dogs Exposed programme on the BBC I think everyone is even more aware of the problems that pedigree dogs suffer, so health problems in most if not all breeds.
There are often news items showing KC reg breeders being banned from keeping any animals at all for life due to the conditions their dogs were kept in, so again something occurring in all walks of life including KC breeders.
In fact everything that has been mentioned so far occurs in the majority of breeds, I am not saying it is right, I am saying it happens.

Because you are not allowed to sopy and paste of another frum or else would happily do it.

Obviously your standards are different to those of others but I feel the credibility or the founder breeder is a problem with the new breed so hence is mentioned.
You wouldnt put a convicted paodophile in charge of children.

I would have hoped the breeders of new breeds would have the benefit of history and hindsight and not repeat past mistakes which can introduce health problems.

Sorry to hear about your dobies, that's not good. It shows that even when you try to do the right thing it can all go to s***.

It looks like I'm irritating some people on here, but hey ho that's life. All I'm asking is for some sort of proof, I'll even settle for an educated guess. I don't think it's that much to ask is it?

Statements like "massive in-breeding - pm me" really get my goat, and these are the very same people that are accusing the breeders and owners of secrecy. I'll stop now before my blood pressure get too high.

Once more unto the breach dear friends, until we fill up the gap with our half baked theories.

They SELL their rescues..so surely the money taken in can be used to neuter/spay the next one

And let's not forget the health tests that are now available to breeders.

FACT : This Dog produced Epilepsy and was PTS due to people aggression