Things you think are 'wrong' with wolfy type crosses/new 'breeds'? Discussions

I haven't commented on NI threads before partly because I don't know the facts and therefore my opinions are for the most part based on hearsay and conjecture. Partly also because of the length of the post which would result. However, I have a sleepy dog and time on my hands today.

I have noticed that there do seem to be a number of health problems within the 'wolfy' looking breeds. That in itself is not however a reason to single out these breeds, as as almost everyone on here will be aware following the recent BBC documentary, many breeds suffer as bad, if not worse, health problems, and more numerous ones at that. The main health problems reported for the 'wolfy' breeds can be counted on, I believe, one hand - not the case many for other breeds.

If the 'wolfy' breed clubs have got/can get their house in order to perform appropriate health tests, and not breed from animals found to be lacking, then that should be acknowledged. If this is not done, then that is what I think is 'wrong' with the breed, as the OP put it.

A related issue is that the founders appear to have used several dogs of unknown origin to start the breed. For what it is worth, that, I think, was a mistake, if the aim was to create a sustainable 'breed' and bloodline. However, hindsight is a valuable thing, and everyone has 20/20 vision with its benefit. The past is in the past, and is there to learn from, and the tragedy with these animals would be not to.

People may also be put off by the number of different 'breed' clubs there are, and the infighting between the clubs.

I have not read all the posts, but a number of posters have said, in effect, that one of the things 'wrong' with the breed is that it was designed for looks alone and with no purpose. Personally, I don't have a problem with that at all, as long as health tests, etc are carried out, the youngsters are placed in good homes and other ethical norms are complied with. I like the wolf like look - it is a natural look and a refreshing change from the exaggerated look of some breeds. I can see exactly why someone would want a NI, ute, or similar breed. I can also see why no other breeds fit the bill. Other established breeds have the wolfy look to some extent, but they do not make good pets for the average dog owner due to their special temprement (independance, willfulness, unreliability off lead etc)delightful as they are. Similarly, at least some in the 'wolfy' breeds are/were gsd people, but became disillusioned with the way the conformation/health of the breed was going and turned to the 'wolfy' dogs.

Temprementally, the NI and Ute appear to be sound, and easier live with than the true northern breeds.

I don't think I could rule out ever having an NI/Ute, as I like the 'wolfy' dogs, but there is too much uncertainty surrounding these dogs at the moment, and I rather like the devotion and work ethic of the workline gsd a little too much to change breeds.

This post is defo not intended to offend anyone - I have no wish to make any enemies - but simply to put my view forward, for what it is worth.

You can add links, as long as there isn't a forum on the other site. At least that's my understanding, I'm sure Azz will remove it and educate us if I'm wrong

Is this place specifically for wolfy dogs, or any type?

You may not post often, but I wish you would. This is certainly one of the best thought out posts I've seen on here. And may I say one I agree with all the points made.

No worries, emotions are running at an all time high in lots of forums re: this subject

The NIS rescue and rehome entire dogs with the possibility of breeding from these dogs..FACT!

Well thank you Efes123

OK, so far the facts we've had of what's wrong with the wolfy breed are:

1. No health checks done on original mating pair
2. No single organisation in control over the breeding/registration
3. At least 1 Re-home centre that doesn't castrate, or splay

Any others?

I wish I'd used 'entire' I had typing the word castrate, it makes me squirm. Am I the only bloke on here?

Skilaki - I would also like to see more of your posts.

I know most rescue centres try to get dogs neutered before rehoming.....but many breed rescues don't.

I have had 2 dogs recently who have come to me form breed rescues with clauses that say the dog can only be neutered if there is a medical reason to do so...

I would like to add one more thing that the breed 'keepers' might want to look at. Being interested in all things wolfy, and having considered the breed in the past, I have noticed quiet a lot of inconsistency of type in NIs. Some look very good and very wolfy indeed, others not so much, e.g. proportions not wolflike, too much angulation a la gsd, ears to large, muzzle too fine etc, soft ears.

I would like to reiterate, lest this be taken as a dig against NIs, that many do look very wolf like, or as wolf like as a non-wolf can look anyway.

As a sidenote, Ute's appear to me to be more consistent in type, but this is perhaps because I haven't seen as many.

Maybe you should add..and allow litters to be had from these dogs AND they regd them and help sell them on their forum

Yes I've noticed that, I've even seen one that looked just like a white GSD with a black patch on it's rump. And this was being advertised as a stud:?. I think this comes under the no overall control of the breed(s).

On the sidenote, agree as well (are you me in disguise? ). It seems the Ute's and BI's do have more consistency in their looks, but that may be just because there are less of them around.

Fact: The founder ofthe breed and chairwoman of NIS society has 2 animal cruelty convictions and was banned from owning dogs for 5 years.

Fact: Pedirees are showing severe in-breeding from Mahlek dogs.

re neutering of re-homed dogs, some rescues do not have the funds to neuter every dog they rehome. As long as the necessary checks are done with the potential new owners, and the centre are as satisfied as they can be that the latter are genuine, is it not better that a dog goes to a new home unneutered, than languishes in a kennel until funds can be found to neuter even though there is a family waiting to re-home him?

Rehoming as a possible breeding animal is a different matter, and I do not think that that is, in the vast majority of cases prudent.

I have some sympathy with the view that dogs should not be neutered except for medical reasons, but in the rehoming context, the priority is to ensure that the animal (which will often be rehomed for a nominal amount, or without charge) will not be exploited (read: bred from), and therefore such a clause as standard is not, in my view, appropriate.

Going offline now to walk dog . . .

Can you please tell me the reason behind this decision (eg: dog has a blood clotting disorder ect) As if a reason is not given then presumably they dont mind you breeding the dog?

This may be contentious (hides behind cushion). But thinking a bit more about this, is this any different than a normal breeder? As long as the rescue centre has a buy-back clause then is there a problem?

Just trying to think about this from all angles. Let's say a breeder dies and all their dogs get re-homed. Is there any reason why they shouldn't be sold 'entire' (I like that word Louise, still makes me twitch but not as much as the other word)? What I'm trying to say (probably badly) is that just because a dog is re-homed once is that reason enough to un-entire them? Or are there other things going on?

I understand what you are saying regarding some rescues cannot afford to neauter all dogs but was under the impression that it is stated that the new owner must have this done unless there is a good medical reason not too?
Please correct me if i am wrong.

Agree this doesn't look good, but cruelty convictions doesn't necessarily mean there's something 'wrong' with the breed. I don't like it, but is it a relevant fact?

Ahh, but haven't you on other posts written about doctoring of pedigrees? Or was that someone else (sorry, too lazy to go and search for the posts, I'm sure you'll let me know )? Can't have this both ways, either the pedigrees are taken as is, or they've been doctored and aren't fact.

Plus in-breeding doesn't necessarily equal health problems, probably, but not definitively.