Gordon/Irish setter and Goldie/Flattie owners please!! General Chat

No I haven't gone completely cwazeeeeeeeeee;-) But we are considering adding to our dog family in the future... We are hoping to move next year to somewhere with a bigger garden,as this one is not big enough for 4 dogs...
Well as much as I adore my English setters and will always have one, I keep thinking that it would be nice to have another breed and I am drawn to the Gordon and Irish setters as well as Golden and Flat coat Retrievers
I am going to thoroughly research them all but know there are some owners on here, so would ask a few questions...
Do they have any bad health issues apart from HD etc...?
Do they dominate (English setters don't seem to do dominance....)
What is their recall like? (English setters have selective deafness )

It won't be until end of next year beginning of 2010, so Deacon (the youngest) will be 2 years old and I can enjoy having a puppy again;-)
Thanks in advance

Hamish our Gordon Setter was something else.......
When he was 6 mths we had a behaviourist out as he was just mad lol. We thought naughty, but they said he was one of the most intelligent dogs she had met.
Hamish was dominated rather than a dominator.
He was great with other dogs but didn't like kids, but that is prob because we didnt have any in the family so when he did see them he just didnt know what they were lol.
He did have selective deafness...stuborn little monkey. But his recall was superb, i never had any issues or concerns with him.
He was as loyal as they come and a smashing chap. He passed away a couple of weeks ago and lived to 13. Which im told is a good Setter age.
I would recommend one of these dogs anyday.

Oh wow, do you have any pics? The reason I ask about dominance is I was told as the English "don't do dominance" not to go for a breed that did, and thats why these 4 breeds seem ideal to me.... I adore them all and hope to have them all one day, but thinking of which one to get in the near future... I am used to the stubborness and norty ways, after living with Jamie for nearly 2 yeas

Do they have any bad health issues apart from HD etc...?
Do they dominate (English setters don't seem to do dominance....)
What is their recall like? (English setters have selective deafness )


Health - Touch wood I've not had any major health issues with my 3 boys. Duke (old man) has a little skin tag thing on his bottom jaw at the moment - off to the vets tomorrow night to have a look at it!

Dominance - I have the occasional grumble - usually to do with food - and it's nipped in the bud straight away. All 3 are entire and are nearly 10, 8.5 and nearly 5 years old and they all live together very happily.

Recall - a bit like English Setters on this one (well for me anyway). They are very well behaved for my husband and on the whole well behaved for me.

Best of luck with whatever your final choice is - I am fancying a Gordon one day myself.

Regards, Karen

Hi

I'm down to one Gordon Setter at the Mo (eagerly waiting for the next one!!) My two boys were like chalk and cheese. Albert is the most laid back dog I have ever met, whereas Archie was totally different and alot more outgoing. Both have been good with kids they've met even although they haven't been brought up with them and I've generally found them very people orientated but with an independant streak (I know that doesn't make sense but can't think how to else to describe them )

In answer to your questions

Health issues - hip scoring is the only thing tested for at the mo (as per code of ethics)

dominance - Albert wouldn't know the meaning of the word! As a whole they are a friendly breed but they do need lots of socialisation and a firm hand from time to time. Discipline can be a very fine line with them as if you're too hard on them they will go to pieces.

Recalls - really depends on the individual dog. Archie's was terrible whereas Albert is great and generally doesn't go too far from you.

They really are a great breed and the breed club champ show is on on Saturday at Ryton-on-Dunsmore where myself and Rachelsetter will be there if you want to meet one or two.

any other questions let me know.

Jill


PS catsta2001 love your boy, sorry to hear he passed away recently. Where did you get him from (PM me if you prefer)

Flat Coats don't really do dominance either!!

They are prone to cancer(as are GRs I believe), so you need to check lines carefUlly (happy to help!) No massive problems with HD etc but they do need to have their eyes checked.To be honest as long as the dreaded cancer doesn't get them they are healthy dogs. We decided tha if we do lose a FCR to cancer at least we know it has lived life to the full, because that is what they do best.

They are such fun dogs. They make you smile on a daily basis and enjoy every moment. They want to be with you and participate in every aspect of your life. I have had one with appalling recall and one with exceptional recall...as long as you get them interested in you its fine...until someone who shall be nameless sees water or mud...

For the right owners they are amazing dogs..I think Setter owners and FCR owners are similar types of people. I think you would enjoy the madness that is a FCR!!!!! They are daft as brushes. I never know whetheror not to be offended when people tell me only 'certain types' of people own them and enjoy them....not sure what they are trying to say, but with you it is a compliment!!!!

Thanks for all your help so far;-) Catsta your Hamish was stunning, there will be a Gordon with us one day.... maybe we should just buy a place with enough room for 8 dogs, then I can have all of these 4 plus another English

Ooh Ramble forgot to ask, can I borrow Cosmo for a test drive;-)

I'm not an owner of any of those breeds, but I think my vote would be for a gordon

My OH had Golden Retrievers growing up and is a big fan, but recently (over last 1-2 years) I seem to be meeting more and more with temperament issues, something which I had never ever experienced before. No doubt down to poor breeding, but makes it doubly important to make sure you pick the right breeder.

Thanks hun, I have known a few good ones and heard of bad ones... as you say bad breeding My neighbours dog was a Goldie, almost white in colour and he was stunning, he died a fortnight ago and I felt so sad when he died, he was such a good boy, loved my gang...
I know I am leaning towards a Gordon or Flattie, but then I see an Irish or goldie and start thinking mmmm

What a dilema (but lovely one )

If Hoki could have a vote, she would say goldie for definite.

Normally she ignores other dogs or is bit off with them if they bother her, but she is in love with a pair of goldies. Its so embarrasing, I can tell whether they're anywhere near before I see them because as soon as she smells them she starts making this 'mm mmm mmm' noise and then turns into such a flirt when we get up close

Aw bless Hoki
Lucky I have about 12+ months to think about it

When I joined this forum, one of my first questions was to ask about Gorden Setters! (Rachelsetters was very helpful )In the end the timing wasn't right, I couldn't find a Scottish breeder in the time I was looking for, I met a lady with a truly horrible gordon in the park which put me off a bit, and I didn't think I had a big enough garden or exercise one enough.Having said all that I would take one on tomorrow if I could.
I got a Golden Retriever instead, and he is brilliant but I think he needs the same exercise as a gordon, as in lots and lots!! my house is a mess, with water, mud and hair but Charlie is a great natured, mostly obediant great dog

Aw bless Charlie Used to mess, mayhem and hair and walks as we have 3 English setters.... I will have a goldie one day as they are beautiful

Well I have one word for you from Cosmo....traitor!!!!! :twisted:

We thought of a Gordon, but the draw of a FCR was too great, since we had already shared our lives with one. I'd pM Rachel if I were you, she'll be so helpful. You should try and meet some of her bunch if you can, I wanted to smuggle her boy away with me at Crufts, but I think someone would have noticed!!!!!
I am still tempted by them, and strangely was discussing other breeds with my OH today (no plans I hasten to add!) WE pretty much agreed that having lived with Flat Coats, we don't really want to live with anything else...although I love setters...... :?
What a lovely dilemma you have though.

Hmmmm...you could borrow him when he has been in a lot of mud if you like.....

yes I did realise I was being a traitor....but this is why -

Okay..fair point!

I promise I will put my twopenneth in just give me one more day please - having all three of the setters will be more than happy to help.

Just a bit preoccupied at the mo honey ok?

Aw hun thats okay... I was going to PM you in the future anyway, thought it may not be the right time at the moment....

Sorry I haven’t replied but I know you are aware of what I have just been through

Right my dear what can I tell you

Well you have the delightful cuddly bum English who have the most annoying selective deafness going, are a challenge to train simply because when they have done something once they really do not see the point in doing again!

I would say I have never encountered dominance in either the Gordon or the Irish as such but then like you say as the English are soooooooo laid back do not foresee this as an issue at all.

Well I have not found the Gordons or Irish as difficult to train in fact the complete opposite.

The Irish:

The breed standard under temperament says:

Demonstrably affectionate and under characteristics tremendously active with untiring readiness to range and hunt under any conditions.

Sacha, once I started training classes with her she was the most delightful puppy to train – and was very bright. Wanting to please and use her brain.

I did the Good Citizen with her and she passed first time. We did agility and she may not have been speedy but we did plenty of clear rounds together

She loved people more than other dogs though – when out on walks would go and see the owner rather than the dog!!!

She loved life to the full (as did our previous irish) and always greeted you with the same enthusiasm if you were gone more than a second!

They are full of fun, mischievous (as are any setter really – that’s why we love them hey!)

Regarding Health Tests - Irish you need to check parents are CLAD clear, PRA clear and Good Hip Scores – think the Irish is avg hip score is 16 at the moment?

The Irish and the English get on fantastic together so would say would fit in super and the age differences with all will certainly help with the pack hierarchy.



The Gordons:

These dogs have character and some!!! Some are laid back and some are full on nutters I have two chilled (not too laid back) and one complete looney! He was from a pup and hasn’t stopped yet at nearly 4!
Breed standard says:

Characteristics
Intelligent, able and dignified.
Temperament
Bold, outgoing, of a kindly even disposition

They are very intelligent – too intelligent for their own good sometimes. They need a firm but kind hand. They never forget anything!

They love to run and will go all day if allowed but will curl up and snooze happily too!

They are your best friend and in my experience stick with one person – the boys are more loving and affectionate than the girls.

On the whole they get on superbly with other dogs if socialized as youngsters. But there are some bad temperaments out there – but I think that is the same with any breed.

They are clowns, like to make you laugh, can make you cry – Angus gets on the work surfaces! He can jump a four foot gate from standing! Max and Connor wouldn’t dream of doing these things though LOL!

They can be noisy – Gobby Gordons! They love to chat the Gordon woowoo!

Slobber can be a problem but I haven’t found this to be too much of an issue – some slobber more than others.

Now it might be I have been lucky but I have found them the easiest to train – recall is very good – they check back all the time – not like those naughty roaming selectively deaf English!!!

Max and Connor both do agility and very fast learners – not the quickest but slow and steady

My advice would be to meet some – there is nothing better than to see things in the flesh – I am at a show 2nd November in Maidstone, Kent! Or there is always Discover Dogs.

Where are you I can see if I know someone with one near you?

An irish or a Gordon would definitely fit in with your English. But then I would think A Goldie or FCR would too – I have never seen an unhappy Goldie they are always happy and FCR well they are just as full of fun as the Gordons!!!

Good luck whichever you decide on you won’t be disappointed I’m sure!

If you want to know anything else just shout!