Reducing Inbreeding In NI dogs Discussions

Sorry I didn't put it very well, not used any scientific words since O level biology lol, showing my age now. I will try to explain. Janie took notes perhaps she can help me out with how to put it.

JS was speaking about breeders starting a new breed and getting a type from the founder dogs. Say for example the new breed was to have 'upright ears', and some of the progeny had soft ears, breeders would breed only pups with 'upright ears' to others with 'upright ears' therefore eventually making the gene for ear carriage homogeneous. (but also losing genetic diversity in the process) Then this line of dogs which only produced 'upright ears' because of the homogeneous gene would be outcrossed to another unrelated line in an assortive mating.

Yes he did say linebreeding is the same as inbreeding, and he was not condoning the amount of inbreeding that has gone on. JS has been given a stack of NI pedigrees to study.

OK That's clear...he was talking of how to achieve a look in initial crossing.

He is a very nice bloke...can be relied upon to try and help the breed, if allowed. His thoughts will be about population of NIs as a whole though not indiividual dogs in the main....so its likely his advice will pertain to that.

Mary

He is great, and has given up his time to help NI, he was really approachable, and explained things in a way even I could clearly understand. I'm sure when he has had a chance to look through the pedigrees his findings will be about the gene pool of the breed as a whole. I just hope that those at the top of the breed really took on board what he was saying and find a way to sort the breed out.

Option 8

good point Louise

any more opinions on this?

If someone could post a poll it would be very helpful (I tried to do an anonymous poll but it didn't work)

I am guessing that there are NI owners on here that are reading the threads but don't wish to speak out publicly.

I'm with Louise13 on option number 8. Stop all breeding until they can find a way forward that will be beneficial to the breeds health etc.

7 from my own personal opinion.

So you do believe there is a problem in the breed then... i think you`re the first NIS official to publicly admit that.. well done you

thank you Luz for posting

If you want my honest, personal opinion, then I'd prefer to go for number 7.

thank you for posting

I think I'd go for 7 as well, although I believe 6 is already going on.

thank you for posting

yes 6 is already openly added in other 'inuits' but not in NIS and Tida, unless you know something I don't

but as I am finding out more by the minute, and more people are speaking out, who knows

Number 7 is the best option I believe. Lots of Utonagan breeders/owners are now hip and elbow scoring, eye testing and blood testing for vwd and addisons. I also know of about 3 Utonagan breeders who eye test their pups before they leave for their new homes.

I think number 7 is the only feasable plan - whether or not it can happen is another matter.

I have read a lot of these NI/Ute etc threads and have not really commented up till now. I have never been a breeder and never will be but even I can see that there are major issues surrounding the breeding of these dogs. It is a shame that there has been so much antagonistic behaviour and I really hope there is a chance that all those with the right attitude can move forward together.

It does seem that there are some major players who would not however be willing to come together and try to work things out. I just wonder how much sway these people have and if it would be possible to unite all the different factions? Would some people simply refuse to take part? Is there even a chance of bringing the major representatives of the different societes into the same room to talk about it? From what I have read possibly not - can anyone directly involved comment? (without starting any kind of slanging match!)

IMO that is a prob with no 7, one of the mentioned clubs is doing no 6 so many of their dogs are not NIDs and minus the wolfdog content the same can be said for the Ute.

Ref inbreeding although I know alot of fake/inaccurate pedigrees exist , I would like to point out that we all know inbreeding exists in pedigree dog breeds and J Sampson himself said it was needed when creating and maintaining a breed.

I do think no 7 may work if the committee of this new federation weren't founders/committee members elsewhere. I personally think that it would cause even more friction than there already is.

I also think that there should be qualified genetists, vets, behaviourists and impartial judges to oversee all factions. Whilst I understand that this could be difficult due to people not having enough knowledge in the breeds/ expense etc, but I do think that this would be the only way forward if this option was to become viable.

It's going to need people that are TOTALLY impartial and unbiased, otherwise it'll fail before it's even got off the ground.

thank you for your reply,

Yes JS did say about inbreeding to create a new breed, he didn't say to carry on with it indefinitely, he also spoke about outcrossing.

The way I look at it is, what is done is done, we can't go back and remove the inbreeding that has gone on in the past. We can however admit that there may have been mistakes, and try to improve the future outlook for the breed.

Do you mean the problem with option 7, is that even if all breed clubs and independent breeders came together, then there still wouldn't be enough genetic diversity to improve the inbreeding problems ?

If people don't want to add new blood, and they are happy continuing to 'line' breed, there is only a realistic choice between 1 and 2

Thank you for your reply

Very good post, I think lack of knowlege has caused many problems in the past. I think the aim of any new federation would be to improve the breed.

excellent post