All things NI General Chat

Sorry to hear about your dog, and yes i can see that raising awareness is going to help, but wouldn't it be better to raise awareness by advising people who are enquiring about N.I's rather than putting up repetetive threads.

What about getting a website and putting up cards in pet shops and ads in news papers refering people to it....e.g. Thinking of getting a N.I? Visit my website for information, advice and guidance? There you could put up all the information you feel is relevant and put people in touch with any breeders who are being responsible.

Anyway, i'm off to bed. I hope there are some improvements in the future but also hope not to read too many more of these sorts of threads.

Not a bad idea there.

this is exactly the thing i was getting at Catrin,... nothing is going to be resolved by asking the same questions over and over.. KC Jack- I don't know why you can't just enjoy your dog and let others enjoy theirs without personal attacks deliberatley getting peoples names wrong and repeating yourself constantly.. (thats how you come across to me a total outsider of the breed) it leaves me thinking you are just out to cause trouble.
I am sorry you have lost your dog recently, was this an NI dog? does Kato have any health problems?

Me too when I see them I do in fact Groan.. Quietly

Its the same old same old.. no one is ever going to give answers and clear all this up because they LIKE the secrecy... it must give them some sort of enjoyment! We have first handed seen the NIS rip to bits one of their own members for wanting to stud her dog.. We have then seen them condone litters to un scored parents, etc etc.. Double standards....if your face fits or you know how to keep your mouth shut then you can breed..(or maybe if you can talk your way out of it)

The pedigrees are a worry and still not sorted out..in which case breeding is a ridiculous thought because you don't know what relative you are breeding too..

The health testing MAY be done sporadically but I don't think most will because of the expense.. I mean you don't breed crossbreeds to sell for £750 each to lose money on them..

There needs to a be a huge shakeup of the entire NIS and someone to sort through all the record keeping and try and make head or tail to it.. IF the info is in there to sort these pedigrees out then do so..IF not then I would make it a nessecity to spay/neuter all the dogs with ancestry that you can't trace..also make epilepsy lines spayed/neutered..Make ALL health testing compulsory.. ALL dogs regd as pet dogs UNTIL they are health test passed and assessed for conformation etc.. THEN sit down and work out the best stud for that bitch for the good of the breed..NOT because he is cheapest, closest etc..AND try and bring in some more lines because MAHLEK is not going to sustain the breed.. They will become more inbred because every 2nd dog is a Mahlek dog..

Is there any dogs that are actually around that have less than say 5 or so Mahlek dogs in their pedigree??

This is why TIDA was set up in the first place. All the people involved that left the NIS, spent time trying to trawl through the scraps of paper and scanty info to try and make some sort of sense of the pedigrees. A lot of time was spent going to the breeders to try and confirm information... but it`s still uncertain in some cases.

As i`ve mentioned on another thread, this was the reason why some dogs were named Kizzy 2 or Luna 1... as it couldn`t be confirmed if they were the same dogs, as their own pedigree papers differed. The same thing with the recording of some dogs with "pet" names and some with "kennel" names, as it couldn`t be confirmed either way if they were the same or different dogs.

The Mahlek line is the fore runner of all NI pedigrees i would think. But these dogs were not all bred by Mahlek. Some were original stock from Eddy Harrison, some were bred by others and even bred by one person, owned by another, then passed on to Mahlek and had their name and affix changed, to appear bred from that kennel. As with Call of the Wild, one of the original NI`s that appears on nearly every pedigree over and over again.

So if breeders were to spay or neuter all dogs with uncertain pedigrees... it would be the entire breed. After the first 4 or 5 gens.. nothing is certain anymore.

Have to agree the breed is in dire need of a good clear out for want of a better word.Well said Louise,loved your post,guess all the lies and secrecy is down to having an attitude of IGNORANCE IS BLISS !!!!!!! xxxxxxxxxx

Good post Louise, although I have NOT been overly involved in any of the NI threads, I feel the threads DO need to continue, for thiose that are fed up DONT READ THEM its that simple, hopefully, eventually, someone will come forward, answer the repeatidly asked questions and then and only then can the "breed" move forward, until such a time that does happen people that are interested in the "breed" are made aware there are issues concerning the "breed" and my re think before jumping in and buying one, and possibly buying into a world of pain, of having a dog that has major health issues. there is far too much secrecy surrounding these dogs. Why? is it because that everything is being done AFTER the FACT ie someone had two dogs and just let them breed together and then decided to call them a particular name? jump on the designer breed thing? and subsequent owners of those dogs bred in the same lacksidaisical manner? people who really didnt have a clue as to what they were doing but hey a few bob are to be made here so lets do it? fact is serious health issues ARE appearing in this "breed" and its the dogs that are suffering, and until the breeders of these dogs STOP what they are doing, evaluate the situation, the "breed" cannot move forward.

Mo

Hi there

My goodness me it's a long time since I've been on here ... so please forgive me gatecrashing this thread

It's also a great shame that, after such a long break (I'm sure I haven't been here for over 2 years) the term 'NI' is still so inflammatory. I started off being involved with one section of the NI groups 7 years ago. That wing rapidly became 'Utonagan' ... which has become another 'dirty word' on dog forums everywhere!!

I've never understood why this breed/these breeds incur such inter-human wrath, when they are such sweet-natured dogs ... it seems ironic! Sadly it seems similar bickering does indeed go on in just about every other breed group, but NI, Ute and latterly Tamaskan really seem to have excelled at airing their dirty laundry in public!!

Don't get me wrong, I do actually understand the desperation behind owners (like kcjack - only read her posts on this thread, but story sounds familiar) venting their frustration on public forums. However, the others here are correct in that it never seems to resolve anything. Which, to be honest, is the main reason I personally stopped visiting dog forums :?

From experience and information seen/received over the last decade (I first met these dogs well before I first owned one, in case anyone thinks I'm just sneaking another 3 years onto my experience ;-) ) the NI and Utonagan have very similar health issues and have been plagued with similarly untrustworthy breeders, for whom money - and indeed glory - are the most important things.

A good clear out of either/both breeds would be great, but I defy anyone to make it happen - though I live in hope of one day having to eat those words. Egos and ... no, actually it's pretty much just those when it comes down to it ... always interfere with the improvement of NI's and Utes. Probably Tamaskans too, but I've never actually met any of those ... though I do have the sister of one, it would seem.

Amazing isn't it; they were born in 2001 as Northern Inuits, became Utonagan in 2002 and one (plus her progeny of course) became Tamaskan in 2006 ... I wonder if she knows??

Anyhow, apologies for the ramble, I guess I'm not past needing to vent this sort of stuff after all! I genuinely mean no insult to anyone, or any group though. I'm just trying to convey how silly the whole thing can/has become.

These days I just try to enjoy my dogs, help out other Utes (I'm not involved with any NI groups - sorry if that means I shouldn't have posted here!!!) where I can; i.e. rescue/re-homing, and generally keep my calm!

Time will tell what becomes of the NI/Ute/Tamaskan in the future, but in the meantime I would say that anyone buying any of these breeds just needs to exert a little (in some cases a lot!) more caution when buying one, compared to some other breeds.

Insurance wouldn't hurt either

Again, I really DO NOT mean any offence to anyone and I hope I haven't fanned any flames

Enjoy your dogs, I do

Great post twofour.

Its does baffle me how a dog can change breeds in fact the idea is just ridiculous, but people know is happening but it still carrying on.
As in my original post one of my biggest gripes is where are all the oldies if the breed has been going 20 years anyone have any ideas?

Hello

Sounds like the best way!

Who are your dogs?

well said

I was an original TIDA Committee member. I left along with 4 other Committee members. Why? Because of the lies that founded TIDA in the first place. Problems that did not exist, we found this out with time. TIDA was set up simply because we all believed one individual who actually has no interest in the breed, just wanted some kind of status for herself That is one reason why the rest of TIDA has turned their back on this person . It is also why you are here Janie (assuming you are actually posting as yourself) to attempt to discredit these dogs on her behalf. The thing is you haven't got a clue of what you are talking about. Not foundation for your lies and no evidence to back them up. Facts, figures and statistic there are non.

Oohhh Werewolf...have you broken the boycott!!

Seems so watch the thread turn to blood bath now.
They will all post now on JK orders to prove they not sheep never known so many grown womam play such silly games.

Werewolf this is not a thread about Tida so can you keep on topic.

right... how about a show us your oldies threa? there are many members who have owned the dogs for years,, so show us your oldies..... no harm in that

pmsl... she`ll be made to sit in isolation reading the NIS theory of NI evolution until she`s suitably punished

Brilliant,xxxxxxxxx

Again some good posts
How can this breed have a future with the mess it's in ?

From the posts I have read it seems to have started way back when the breed was formed,lots of inbreeding and inaccurate pedigrees,along with health issues.

Would I buy one ? As much as I like the dogs there isn't a chance on this earth I would buy one,there is just so much uncertainty surrounding the dogs,so many lies are told,so many questions remain unanswered,maybe it's because they don't have any,if you can't get a pedigree right what hope is there

I think you will find TIDA was mentioned before I posted, perhaps you missed that, I don't see how though being as I quoted the relevant post. I was simply adding some info, I thought you wished for this thread to be civil

There is no mess, just much propoganda, spread by a few people.

Ok Werewolf why are the pedigrees such a big mess and many are lies, and what about the inbreeding whats your view on that?