NI/Ute Health Problems Health

Ooh I thought I'd scared everyone away then and everyone was worriedly checking their pedigrees for common rellies of Loki.

I think inbred Redkite is part of the problem, yes, but I'm not sure how far back it goes, and I believe there is epilepsy coming from both sides. There have also been cases of Addison's and VWD.

He's fine now thank you Suzi. Just about back to his usual self.

Hey, that is great that he feeling better, hope he continues getting back to being himself

No, as far as I am aware my Mad Lad has no Redkite. Who knows for sure

One thing to beware of is dropping of names. For instance, Loki obviously has Redkite in his lines but he is known as Blustag, as was his mother.

See what I mean? Also, Loki's lines go back to Mahlek lines.

It gets confusing. :?

Very confusing, Mack has a couple Mahlek dogs on his Sires side right at the back, and his Dam's goes back to dogs like Wolfgar and Shy Lady. But. his pedigree is a big mess anyway

As you say a lot of dogs seem to be down as different names on some pedigrees, so that makes it even more confusing, some have an affix, some pet names.

I think that`s what make all these dog`s peds all the more confusing and uncertain. :-(

Thanks janie can't wait xx

no wonder the breed is in a mess

I am curious as to why, if you feel the breed is such a mess, you had a litter?

because a lot of the mess had been hidden, I did my best to research before I bred, and made the choice of stud dog to reduce the COI not just for looks. But I had no idea how inbred the founder dogs were. The pedigree issues are only just coming to light.

I expect you think that I didn't do enough research, if you knew about the mess the pedigrees were in, (as you were on the Tida committee and had access to the database), then you should have spoken out, and warned people.

I did my best to research. But since finding out more information recently I won't breed again until everything is out in the open for owners and breeders to see. And may then decide never to breed again.

btw my dog is patchy yes I do know that, I bred her yes I do know that, I did what I thought was right at the time. She has won at shows above standard coloured dogs. I know that other people disagree on breeding dogs with colour faults, and I accept their difference of opinion, and can agree to disagree.

If you are trying to have another go at me for breeding Sapphire to avoid admitting that the breed is in trouble, then that is your choice.

Well done you... that was EXACTLY the impression i got too Ali

Yes I have many choices in life...... One was not to breed my dogs to make money from them. Funny, I was not with TIDA when you bred from your bitch. The pedigrees may be a mess but that is nothing to do with the NIS. I have pedigrees for my dogs, one copy from NIS one copy from TIDA (pre present committee) ,the pedigrees were done by the same person but are different. Deliberate Ref breeding Sapphire that was your choice, I do believe the puppies have done nothing positive for the breed but that is my opinion.

But you fully support a person who does just this... so you are just as bad in my eyes.

It`s got everything to do with the NIS.. the database was created whilst the reg officer was with the NIS and was in their hands until Oct 06. But it was realised what a cock-up the whole thing was from JK`s record keeping, that`s why so much research had to go into the peds after this date. I don`t think it will ever be sorted out or correct, because the complete lack of care taken in the beginning.

May I ask (and I'm not wishing to cause an arguement) why others including myself can see the mess that the breed is in,from false inaccurate pedirees to health issues which are not been taken seriously,other NI owners can see this and some have admitted openly on this forum well done you guys,because the only way forward in my opinion is to acknowlege problems to take the breed forward,so why are certain NI owners,members of cubs etc still in a state of denial,Is that really going to help the breed,most importantly the dogs and their owners ?

Is there really a way forward for these dogs,because if there is I really can't see it at the moment.

You support a person whos dogs live in a small conservatory with no open windows as the dogs escape (unless they are confined to their crates), who continually breeds one litter, makes some money then sells the bitch, who deliberately breeds from bitches with health problems. You must of had concerns as when you went to her house to take pics of her dogs, you made sure you only took headshots So who are you to judge me Actually I do think she is doing them a favour once she sells them on , I am sure they have a far better life once they are rehomed.

I am saying that the database you are refering to is more than likely, deliberately inaccurate

why would someone do that?:? they would need to be hiding something?

I think that it was done to mess up the pedigrees. I do not think the reg officer did this deliberately, I think the then Chairperson did the tampering or greatly influenced it.

If you are referring to my friend? I think you find her dogs live in her (beautiful) house with ceiling fans and has access to her 100ft plus orchard/garden, at any time they need it. I`m not sure how she continually breeds one litter as she has only one breeding bitch, that will sometimes have one litter a year. I hardly see that as a breeding empire.. quite unlike the head of the NIS that has 15 odd dogs.. that live in despicable kennels, that have to stand on their back legs to see out.. popping out pups like a production line.. who has known for years about serious health problems.. and has done NOTHING to remedy it.. leaving everyone else to try and pick up the pieces.

I would say too.. the data base was deliberately inaccurate.. by JK! As she didn`t want anyone to know the full extent of the inbreeding and indiscriminate breeding practices over the years. What about the 64 dogs.. she "accidental" forgot to put on the database.. how do you think that threw out everyone's pedigrees??

There`s nothing you can say Nes that takes away the fact that this is ALL JK`s fault, and every attempt of slagging off other breeders is just an attempt to divert peoples attention away from the real culprit.

So this would have been done by the NIS then?

I have to say in response to janies post above.. I think JK's kennels are terrible, to have a solid base like that is just cruel,.it does the dogs no good either... my kennels are mesh wire from bottom to top... not the tiny mesh that they cant see through but big squares... a dog spending its life time on its back lege is bad..

the only reason I can think someone would do that is to limit view.. to stop barking... it wont work...:-( regular daily exercise will help a great deal though.;-)

But you support a person that keeps dogs in wringing wet kennels, littered with feaces, who cannot see out except for stretched on their back legs, they spend their lives looking at bare walls, how can you condone that?

I know nothing about kennelling dogs but my first reaction when I saw those pics,was OMG that would drive Mack mad Not being able to be nosey, they also seemed small to keep more than one dog in at a time, those runs don't seem very big, not for large dogs IMO. Like I said I have never kennelled a dog, but they don't seem very nice to me.

Also, it can not be good for their backs or hips