Whats going on with NI pups? Controversial

Not my problem, its yours.

In that case apologies to Dawn. It's just I did a fair bit of research into Inuits when I spotted the ad for Kopek, and yes, there does seem to be a concern about inbreeding, but there still doesn't seem to be much in the way of persistent health problems. Cert5ainly no more than a lot of pedigree dogs. This was why I was happy he was a Bi as they have chosen to widen the gene pool to avoid any potential problems.

Yes I knew what I was buying. The BIDC are continuing to crossbreed the NI to widen the gene pool, so it was quite possible that the mother was a GSD, and although she isn't she certainly has a lot of that in her.

I don't see it as a problem thank you

This whole widening the gene pool thing pees me off as well! The people that claim to do this are only saying this as a way to justify them attaching a different label to the NI. Adding the founder breeds doesn't automatically mean you will make the breed better. You could in fact be making the problems worse by adding bad lines.

When done for the right reason by the right people (much like one of the ute groups are doing) with fully health tested lines then yes it could add something of benfit. The people i see doing it are not in the catagory though . .

but if you compare the amount of NI/BI/UTE's to the number of pedigree breeds {though I think NI's/BI's/Utes may well be breeding more than rotties do at the moment I think last year in total of 4'557 rotties reg
then given most only have a three gen pedigree,

take the stats for say rotties with health issues which will be compiled from thousands of dogs going back many years
then take the info you can get on NI type dogs
the % I think may well be quite high

sorry I havent explained that too well,,,

See Phil, can I call you Phil? I will help or support ANYONE if they are honest in their practice, but what you have just said is the direct opposite to what I was told personally by a BI breeder. She said the BI breeders do NOT out cross to other breeds at all, and that a crossbred dog would never ever be registered with the BIDC, you are saying they do crossbreed, can you see mine, and many others frustration?
Dawn.

I think I see what you're saying. It would be interesting to compare the NI with say the GSD and other of it's 'makeup' that may be a way of seeing if things as a whole are improving, if you get what I mean.

Typical, but expected.

Sometimes the truth will hurt, given my previous post, can you tell me this: Who is lying? The breeder of BI's that categorically stated that the BIDC do NOT cross with other breeds, or you, who said they do?

Think about that, then ask yourself why people get defensive and ask questions about these types of dogs. You have just entered the world of BI/NI/Chimayo Inuit/Nothern Illimar etc etc... oh and by the way, ALL those are the SAME dogs!

'Course you can call me Phil.

Could I ask whether the breeder was a member of the BIDC? If they're not crossbreeding then what they have aere NI's. The BI was formed by breeders leaving the NIS and re-registering their dogs as BI's.

I have a mail from Shoshone that states they do cross with CWD's, but only with a certain HD score, and that the owners are given all the information with their papers. They do seem to take the health of the dogs very seriously and have a strict set of rules before allowing dogs to be registered for breeding. They do seem to be happy for dogs to be registered as a BI with less strict control, but then if they don't allow them to breed, or don't git them their blessing, then that's surely not so bad? As it looks like Shoshone are the BIDC then I think they must be the authority. Unless of course there's another national BI club out there

that would be a good idea ;-) But you would have to take numbers and so on into account,
I guess its not as easy as it sounds, theres your challenge laid out before you

Well the breeder I am speaking of has dogs from Shoshone kennels, so yes they are BIDC registered, she says she breeds BI only, no NI.

This is where the BI people lose me . . They say they are not crossing (don't think this is true though if you look at some BI you can see the CWD) NI's. But then they say they are not NI's but BI's . . . Well if you take and NI and a NI and breed them the pups are NI!

Ah, there seems to be a big difference between having dogs registered with them, and registering dogs for breeding, if that makes sense

I can quite easily register Kopek with them, and then go and breed him with anything. But what I can't do is breed him with their blessing until he's passed their criteria.

Oh cool, I didn't know I could quote myself I meant to hit edit:-(

As the BI is essentially an NI, breeding him with other BI's would just produce more NI's. Now try and follow that

The point of the BIDC was a split with the NIS due to too small a gene pool, whether that's true or not I don't know and am not really qualified to say, so I'm not going. Except all the NI owners I've spoken to have been happy with their dog's health, sorry couldn't resist dawn

OMG I AGREE WITH RACHEL! You are so right! I was categorically TOLD that there is NO CWD in the BI, when you can clearly see it!

But how can they say they are going to widen the gene pool and then also say they are not crossing with other breeds? I'm lost now!!!

The way i understand it is the founder of the BI got kicked out of the NI world for some reason and started there own breed.

Nooo dont hold back! Honesty is always the best policy.

Its called lying Rachel.

Im not sure why they broke, but if it is because of the small gene pool (which I agree with) then denying what they are doing is just dishonest and conning people all over again.

LOL! Thats cuz i is not stupid just opinionated and sometime my opinions and yours dont match . .