Whats going on with NI pups? Controversial

Can I remind everyone of this sticky?

http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=76050

I dont have an NI nor do i think I ever will have reading the threads on here. However I wish you'd let the puppies who have sadly passed rest in peace, I gread to think how distressful it is for there owners to hear you constantly going on about autopsy results.
You are doing yourself and the breed no favours by this action and I'm sure you know the posting rules about refering to other threads which is what you seem to be doing constantly.

Where did I say that they should be flogged to unsuspecting owners? No they should be sold, not for a fortune to people who are warned and prepared and will test them. I didn't feel the need to spell everything out. it would be awful to sell them to people who have no idea of the risks. However, there are people kind enough to take a risk. If no one would take them, then you brought that litter into the world and you'd have to keep them, or I would.

I went to have my lunch... Of course I had Zella X rayed before I bred her, of course I knew her hips were good before. I come on this forum to defend my breed from the lies you tell Kcjack and now I am having to defend myself from your misinformed assumptions, you dont know me if you did you would know I am conciencious,caring and do things by the book ,my dogs are all in excellent health and I want to progress this wonderful breed and that includes ensuring all health requirements are met BEFORE breeding . You constantly post incorrect info and at times bare faced lies, I am not answerable to you so I am going offline to walk my dogs I suggest you get some therapy for your obsessive behaviour!

She is frustrated by the lack of answers MS, but I understand your point. Puppies die, of course they do, but with symptoms like one in particular had, it should be TOP priority testing ALL the siblings, the mother and the father to start with. If the breeder showed the same concern, I expect people would back off, but nobody likes to hear of puppies dying, and its worse when apparently nothing is done to find out why.

I think the way that is worded is one way.

I believe that hearsay/posts from other forums should not be posted here by people other than the original poster on the other forum.

So who would buy them? "show" people? come on be serious! How about the breeder doing the RIGHT thing instead of polluting the dog world with potentially sick animals just for the sake of it, disgraceful practice! you lot talk about the KC, get a grip and look in the mirror!

So you had your bitches results BEFORE you mated her? Zella has a REALLY long coat too, I thought that was a fault?

WEll Tania seems to think that it worked out for the best the results coming back after was ok as they were good.

Sadly MS I have to disagree the pups werent with there new owners they were still with the breeders. And I feel very strongly that these pups should of been tested and should not die in vein and so thus help other pups in the future that mat be born.

There is nothing obsessional about considering stats, the KC hold stats for registered breeds

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=1745&d=pg_dtl_art_news&h=242&f=0

Those of course are the ones which have been registered, there will be more which haven`t ben of course - same as any non-recognised breed faction I dare say.

Perhaps in the hope that `the truth is out there` ? If no one will answer the most asked questions openly then other tactics tend to be used, much like undercover reporters.

If kcjack took the photos no permission is needed, copyright belongs to the person taking the photos.

Do you think it`s wrong as well when dog fight rings are exposed by people who have the guts to go in and get photos and footage ? Or is it ok if its to uncover anything except something you don`t want to see looked into ?
Maybe if there were more honesty and had been from the start - no other breeds have such secretive shrouds around them - there would be no need for anyone to feel they have to resort to less open ways of getting facts

The breeder was not identified unless I missed something ?

It`s also an uneven score - a difference of three or more really should not be bred from, the only time I can think of when it`s considered acceptable is if the difference is proven to be from an injury or in a very rare breed with a tiny genepool and even then I think it`s shakey ground.
If I had a dog of three or more uneven score or a score over ten, [ which is something I have said before so you can check on that if you wish ], I would not breed from that dog.

Of course I understand where your coming from I just think that KCjack is doing more harm than good with some of her threads/comments on here.

Just a point but i though there have been threads on this before? In fact the by the same person with the same people involved . . I thought it was against the rules to post about a locked thread? Or does that only apply to certain people?

I have to say this, are you serious You think that`s ok - honestly ?

Kcjack I love your style and good for you.Can't believe that pic of the poster some people will go to some lengths to sell pups.IMO they shouldn't be breeding when they have to resort to these practices,they should have had homes lined up for their pups in the first place and as for pedigree on the poster,what a blatant lie xxxxxxxxxx

Well do you think I should do nothing and say nothing?
Sorry I will continue to do what I feel is right I have a NI and am facing the fact he could have severe hip dysplasia so I will not stop till the bad breeding practises are stopped.
I didnt research Nis when I got Kato and I suspect many people dont. So these people could buy a pup with parents with bad hips now I just dont believe breeders will say " I didnt hipscore before breeding so the fact is your dog may have a life of pain and be crippled and break your heart" No they sell as cute pups and take the money.

Are you serious?? How would you like it is a pup you bred had to be PTS after weeks of fighting for it only to have someone demand on a public forum the autopsy results? When the vets have said its just one of those things, very sad but nothing to do with breeding.

Yes there are people who will take them, somebody has to. But one day I and the rest of us who do take in the `imperfects` would love to be able to get a completely healthy dog instead of being a crap breeders dumping ground for what they churn out with a first thought of testing let alone a second thought
I`m sorry but I`m appalled at that way of thinking, tell it to my genetically deaf and my genetically partially sighted dogs that them having disabilities because testing did`nt matter as ` there are people out there` who will clean up after the disreputable unscrupulous charlatans who breed without testing for everything relevant first

You hit the nail on the head perfectly there Patch.

Razcox I dont believe for one second the vet would not recommend autopsys if this was a professional breeder unless some back street practise.
I have spoke to a vet about the symptoms these pups had and he said would of been done as a matter of urgency before other pups went to there homes.

I don`t recall there being any other threads started specifically on NI breeding stats but if there were and you can find them and if they were locked then you might have a fair point ;-)