Whats the difference between NIS and TIDA Questions

From being on both forums it seems to me the TIDA talk a nice story but very little is done in the long term (maybe this will change now that SC has left.) I asked a very important health question and was fobbed off with some info about frontline ( My vet later told me this was a load of rubbish)!

And why have a dig at the NIS for keeping quiet about the start of NI's? on the TIDA forum the question also is unanswered as SC doesn't want to reveal her souces and lose some sales of her book . . .
At least if you ask you can get the info for free with the NIS

I have to agree Rachel. When I was a member of the TIDA forum I used to chat too SC on MSN (she helped deliver my Luca). Many a time I was fobbed off, or not even answered when I asked questions regarding health

I do have to say that I'm glad I did chat to her though, if it wasn't for SC, I would never have found out that my girl is half NI and wouldn't of found the NIS

The Northern Inuit Society was formed about five years ago as a club for people who owned and/or bred Northern Inuit dogs. By this time, the breed was already established and they were pure breeding NIs (NI to NI) true to type.

There were then various disagreements between breeders within the NIS. Some disagreements were over breeding practices and some were over the way forward for the breed. For example some breeders wanted their dogs to look like certain and particular types of wolf.

Some NIS members were ejected from the NIS and some left of their own accord because of these various disagreements.

One group of breeders got together and set up TIDA (The Inuit Dog Association) about 18 months ago. They obviously started out with pure NIs (as they had previously been part of the NIS), but after leaving the NIS, their gene pool was greatly diminished. They decided the best way forward for them was to re-introduce some of the founder breeds (huskies, mals & GSDs etc) to widen their gene pool. Some of their dogs are now pure NIs, some are NI crosses and some are the progeny of these crosses crossed back with NIs again.

At the same time, there were some breeders who left the NIS and set up other societies and groups - such as BIDs (British Inuit Dogs), Utonagans and Chamayo Inuits. These were all originally part of the NIS, but on leaving and setting up on their own, they made their own agenda on what THEY wanted for the future of the breed (as explained above re: breeding to look like particular types of wolf etc). Each of these new groups introduced different crosses to their breeding programs to reflect their own visions for the future.

So....... there are now SEVERAL NI 'factions'. The NIS has continued to PUREbreed NI to NI, and thus ALL NIS dogs are purebred NIs. Among the other factions, SOME of the dogs are still purebred NIs (and are eligible to be NIS registered), some are NI crosses, and some are the progeny of NI crosses, crossed back again with NIs.

Each faction has it's own agenda of what they are aiming for and while the dogs are still very similar in many ways, as time goes on each faction will develop it's own 'type'.

Since each faction has its own seperate genepool, health problems such as epilepsy tend to be particular to each group although they as seen as a 'breed wide' issue from the outside looking in. While TIDA dogs are indeed the descendants of JK's NIs, they have been crossbred with others and their genepool is quite separate from that of the NIS. The NIS does not seem to have any problems with hereditary epilepsy (as yet), so it looks like the epilepsy problem with TIDA has come from some of the crosses they have used, rather than from the original NIS NIs, otherwise the NIS would have the same problem.

Hope this clears things up for the OP. Although I am a member of the NIS, I am not a member of the committee and these are MY OWN personal views (based on the research I have done for myself before buying my NI) and are not necessarily the views of the NIS, TIDA or any other NI faction.

brilliant sally. i was just about to give up on my on thread.
at last, someone who can actually make sense of all this mess.
thank you for your effort.
sound slike a case of the People's Front Of Judea to me.
i agree with danish pastry...i dont think i would touch one of these dogs with a barge pool now!
i like wolfie looking dogs. but if so inclined, i can just settle with a GSD, Husky, or Mal

Future KC recognition....no chance after reading all this

And on the other side of the fence there are lots of us who are very happy with our dogs. Balance is good

The KC don't "do" anything to breeds - tis the breeders themselves and the breed clubs,.

But the kc still register the litters and dogs, the KC is supposed to be where people look to when buying a pup but if they are registering inbred litters or constantly changing the looks of breeds then what exactly are the KC doing?
I'd have thought if someone wanted to register a litter with them then the relevant checks would have been done on that litters pedigree and if there ws something a miss then they wouldn't register them but this is not the case. The KC have clearly become greedy

TIDA are aiming for KC recognition, but I don't think it's much of a priority for the NIS. I am happy with this as I'm not that impressed by the KC.

The KC has given TIDA five years to sort out any disagreements with the NIS before they can apply again. The KC won't recognise Northern Inuits unless the NIS and TIDA work together. As I have explained above, since the genepools are now quite separate, each society will end up with quite different types unless the genepools are shared.

The NIS is not willing to work with TIDA at all, in part because they disagree with some of TIDA's breeding practices (breeding dogs with epilepsy and patchy dogs for example), and partly because they have reintroduced crossbreeding (a move not necessary for the NIS as they have a much wider genepool than TIDA).

Since KC recognition is not a priority for the NIS, I can't see the situation changing at least for the foreseeable future, so it would seem KC recognition will be a LOOOONG way off - IF it ever happens at all.

Nobody in TIDA has animal cruelty convictions against them, perhaps the NIS isnt worried about KC recognition, because if it were granted JK couldnt stand on any of the committies with those convictions against her.

Why bring this into it to it? Its comments like this that mean I and others may not be able to talk about our breed soon

Please keep on topic and stop saying the same old stuff!

I understand that JK did offer her resignation to the committee because of this, but that the committee declined to accept it, so this is NOT the reason WHY the NIS is not concerned about KC recognition.

Sorry Razcox it relevant wether you like it or not. Threads evolve thats what they do, Another example of NIS members only wanting happy stuff put up and report/cry when negative stuff appears.

How can you say its not relevant the thread is about TIDA and NIS and the Chairwoman on NIS has animal cruelty convictions. Thats the reason NIS CANT get KC recognition and staying as the NIS and doing there pedigrees and registrations its a license to print money.

So then can you tell me what on earth is the point of creating a breed, holding shows and breeding them in such numbers? People reading this stuff will naturally assume that things are being hidden and excuses offered by way of "we dont want KC recognition" See where I am going? If we dont need to explain, then why should we?

If you see doing pedigrees and registrations as a licence to print money then it's a licence that TIDA also have - as well as any other faction that issues pedigrees and registrations.

However, running ANY society such as NIS or TIDA costs money and no-one HAS to contribute if they don't want to.

The same reason everyone else shows there dogs because we are proud of our dogs! I show my lurcher at a number of shows and game fairs but she will never enter cruft golden halls!

The KC is not the be all and end all of everything . . .

Its not hearsay what so ever its FACT it was cruelty against a shar pei dog and lizards. Anyone wishing to read facts PM me and send you link.

Because people like me LOVE these dogs!! We enjoy owning them and we enjoy our shows!! There are many people who aren't that interested in KC recognition for their breed - and these include enthusiasts for many other breeds, not just NIs - JRTs, patterdale terriers for example.

Your Lurcher is a CROSS BREED! and NOBODY tries to make out anything else!

Try telling my Cassie that! The way she praces round the ring anyone would think she was a blue blooded italilan greyhound.

We call her Lady Cassington Woof when she gets all snotty!