Epilepsy in NI's Controversial

Although to be fair, there is no test for epilepsy as yet.

No, but many breeds were created when little was known about inheritance at all. Some seem to have the mindset of 'you can't prove it's inherited, so we're going to continue breeding from relatives of dogs with epilepsy'. People now know about genes (perhaps not the exact mode of inheritance regarding epilepsy) so why keep breeding from affected lines?

I believe you have just hit the nail on the head of this whole thread (wow i'm a poet!). This is an answer we would all like to know.

I completely agree with this comment. Saying stopping breeding NI's because of a small percentage having epilepsy is ridiculous. If people don't like it then don't have one. End of problem for you.

I do not mind my dog being used as an example but will point out it is not my dogs, it is one of my dogs, not all of them.

Yes of course the epilepsy has come from somewhere down the line way back but I can honestly say with the exeption of one dog who I do not know the breeding of, the only NI's I have come across with epilepsy come from one tida breeder from the same dogs. It is the fact that this line of dogs are being continued breeding from that I feel very strongly against.

Also I have asked our vet if there is any test to see if Sacha is likely to develop epilepsy in the future and was told no there is not.

epilepcy happens in ALL breeds of dog, listed among genetic factor as either proved or highly suspected is GSD
A high incidence of siezure disorders includes the Sibe...
there you go, wolf look a like sounds good, but is the implications really worth it ... x

some where down the line way back, eh NO, dogs with it now are here living with it and being bred from so puts epilepsy right up there with the present day gene pool !

Think you are right the only trouble being despite many people asking for information most if not all of us are unaware of which lines have been used or are being used now.

Epilepsy can be diagnosed but the animal has to be in the surgery of a practice that has the right equipment to test for this at the time of an attack. However if a dog is fitting and no other reason can be found it is a very good bet to assume and accept the animal is effected by epilepsy. The thing one needs to know is was the g.g.g.g.g.g.grandfather and or mother clear of all health problems and have all the progeny and progeny’s progeny been clear of health problem. Until this has been checked then no animal should be bred from. The breed clubs of the respective breeds used in this project may be willing to help once the projected breed is seen to be progressing in a sensible, harmonious, open and responsible manner.

and that is exactly what shouldn't be happening. I haven't heard of any dogs that have epilepsy themselves being bred from but could be wrong. It is the close relations of dogs with epilepsy that tida are continuing to breed from to my knowledge.

Yes I appreciate what you are saying and I appreciate your honesty Abbie. What im saying is by breeding from siblings its never going to improve the problem, the problem is in the breed, not the club its owners belong to. All NI share the same background, your dogs breeding is behind loads of others too.

Thats my point exactly Dawn. It is breeding from the siblings of dogs with epilepsy that is the problem in my opinion.

Point is Abbie, very similar breeding is being bred from in other kennels, yet it seems to be only TIDA that get the flack. The dog Sacha is by, how many times has he been used? Overall she has what? 24 Mahlek Dogs, plus more without the Mahlek affix that were either owned or bred by JK in a 5 gen pedigree. I am not pointing ANY blame to ANY individual, and I TOTALLY agree with what you are saying about the NIS doing the right thing, but nobody is doing right be these Dogs because the very lines they say Epilepsy is coming from are being used by different breeders all the time.

I have a dog from the same line as Abbie. He is the dog who was first diagnosed with epilepsy from this line. In no way do I blame his breeder or anyone else for that matter. His breeder was recommended to mate her Mahlek bitch with a Daytona stud dog by the NIS. As several dogs at that time had been diagnosed with epilepsy after using frontline and there had been no instancies of epilepsy from the bitches first litter we presumed that it was this that might have caused this. It was only in March this year that cases of epilepsy came to our attention with regard to this line with the use of one particular stud dog. Unfortunately two bitches were already in pup at this time which has caused great distress to the breeders concerned. This line is no longer being bred from. The bitches in question are to be spayed. Tida has been in contact by phone on a regular basis with Jefff Sampson , Head Geneticist with the Kennel Club and the Animal Health Trust In Cambridge regarding this problem and other health issues that we are concerned with and have managed to book him to give a talk on genetics with particular regard to the Northern Inuit dog and any health problems we have found within the breed. It is being held at the Canine Acadamy in Nottingham. This is open to ALL owners and breeders of NIs from both the NIS and TIDA and also any other interesred party. Anyone interesred in attending should either contact myself or Sandra Curry for dates. may I also add that NO crossbreeds have been registered with TIDA. I should know as I am reg. officer with TIDA and previously as REg Officer with the NIS. There was one litter reg. with us in the beginning which was proved to be of dubious origin and that breeder was informed that no further litters from that particular mating would be registered and that the aforesaid litter has been removed from our data base.
I will not be replying to any posts about this but am quite willing to speak to anyone if they would like to contact me--thanks Carol

Brill post thanks alot for it! I'm sure people will be in touch about those dates Thanks

Sacha's sire is a TIDA stud dog, yes he has been used many, many times. As to where the epilsepsy has originated from I do not know but the fact is at the moment there is a litter being sold as pet only from a bitch whos sister has the condition. This was clear before the bitch was bred from. This personally I think is really bad for the individual dogs and of course potential owners and it goes without saying it is unethical breeding. To me there is no excuse for such a mating taking place, this goes beyond breed standard fault eg curly tail, patchy coat etc this is a life threatening illness.

With all due respect I have seen the paper work for at least two cross bred dogs that were regsitered as TIDA dogs (incidently both were being used to breed from, one a bitch one a stud). With such dogs being classed as NIDs by TIDA how on earth can people know what they are getting, ref health and temprement???

What a complete load of rubbish. I know how you suffer with your dogs fits and I wouldn't wish it on anybody. As soon as the fits became apparant I firmly believe that no more litters should have been bred from these lines. But no it has turned out that there is now 3 generations of these dogs with at least one in each generation suffering from epilepsy.

I would also wonder how old Breeze's latest litter are now considering you admit to knowing about this since March? I do know that Breeze's owner knew about this in March as I put aside our differences and informed her myself as I felt it was my duty to do so for the dogs sake. There is also a dog from Breeze's first litter advertised as a future stud dog!! Strange when it could have been taken off since March. I know for a fact that the website in question has been updated many times over the last few months as I have had to complain about it many times due to stolen material appearing on there.

Perhaps you think it strange that someone could feel so strongly about this, but I find it extremely odd that you see your own dog suffer and put no blame on the breeder when she has let this continue, with your full knowledge as registrations officer, for 3 generations with more and more dogs and their owners having to go through it.

Also Carol, the breeder that you hold in such high esteem did not have the decency to contact all people with dogs that she had bred that possibly carried epilepsy. This is giving you the benefit of the doubt that you did not know about this until March, which of course you did, as your own dog has suffered with epilepsy since before Sacha's litter was born over 2 1/2 years ago.

It was only because the NIS were also told about Sacha's sister's epilepsy that I found out about it. It was the NIS who contacted me to inform me of this important information that I, as an owner of one of these dogs, needed to know.

Incidently this litter is not advertised on the TIDA website, if it was a tragic accident as Carol has said (which we know not to be true as I remember when Jane contacted the breeder to alert her of the illness present in close family genes, and this was before the mating took place) then why wouldn't the puppies be advertised on the TIDA website with of course an explanation? Personally and you may call me sinical but I think this is due to a number of reasons, no 1 it was a deliberate mating but with refelction the breeder has regretted this. No 2 it exposes TIDA for unforgiveable breeding practices and no 3 the puppies would be difficult to sell if potential puppy owners knew the tragic health implications.

I can provide photographs of TIDA registered dogs that clearly AREN'T Northern Inuits (I've also seen and met these dogs) If these dogs are what you call 'pure NI's' then god help the rest of us

We also know that TIDA is breeding from a line that has known epilepsy. The person who chair's this association is registering them as breeding stock. Very responsible.....I think not

The line Mahlek line that was producing epilepsy was not bred from as far as the NIS was concerned, hence stopping producing the risk of this this awful disease going any further, which is more than can be said from other factions.

If all of you want to tar the NIS with the same brush, then go ahead. WE know the difference, it's just a shame others can't see that!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is NOT point scoring or hearsay, this is fact. There's pups out there that are, or have been, TIDA registered that ARE epileptic or have epilepsy in their lines. Abbie's girl is proof of that

Yes, fingers crossed she never develops it. It is an awful, devastating disease for both owner and dog and it was such a shock to us when Loki started having fits. I needed to know whether it was in his lines so that I could inform the vet so we would know what we were dealing with but it was all denied, of course.

At least if the breeder has informed you of any risk, you are able to understand it if it happens and also take steps to make sure the dog/bitch is never used in breeding.

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Good point Pita and oh sooooo true. If anyone is interested, there is some research being done into canine epilepsy and finding genetic markers but it does need people working together to get samples from relatives ...

http://www.canine-epilepsy.net/cerc.html