Epilepsy in NI's Controversial

I feel for your situation it must be very draining to have this issue hanging over you. My greatest hope goes out to you that she NEVER shows any signs of this disease.

Razcox, I understand that frustration. Unfortunately TIDA's chairperson isn't a member on here I don't think so can't answer your questions. Anything that comes from standard TIDA members will more than likely, still be hearsay, just from the other side of the fence so to speak.

At least that would be better then the 3rd hand information we have flying around at the moment. I don't like to make rash judgments about anyone but so far as i can see little is being done 'on the otherside of the fence' other then burying heads in the sand.

Yup, true (or appears to be ) (sorry could help myself!)

The owner of my dogs sister is a member on here. She is also a tida committee member. I would certainly be interested in seeing her reasons for breeding from this bitch.

I also hope that she has the deceny to inform potential puppy purchasers about this. The litter is advertised as pet only. Being a pet only does not mean that epilepsy is acceptable in my opinion.

Defiantly not! I had a cat with epilepsy, she was just a little black ex- feral kitty but i loved her. At 16 i had to watch her have fits and wet herself, then at 17 i had to make the heart breaking choice to have her PTS. She had too many fits in one day and the Vet said there was nothing that could be done. This is something that should NEVER knowingly be passed on to any animal. From the top class BIS dog at crufts to the little x breed down the road.

Anyone breeding from a bitch with closely related epileptic family members has no decency at all, so I very highly doubt she's letting the potential new owners know
Pet only means, healthy but undesirable traits for the show ring/breeding, not a label you can apply to potentially epileptic puppies as if they are fine. It really is disgusting.

Your information is merely hear say, so really not too help full, and nothing that hasn't been said before, sorry if you feel I was crapping on you
There really is no point in going round the houses about N.I's again at least not here any way...
Maybe some one should start an N.I concern group ?

Think most of the posts on the last two pages are an example of why the NI & UTE etc will never solve this problem. Anyone interested in developing this cross breed to a stage where it will become acceptable as both a breed and the KC will have to learn to work with one another, the breed clubs will have to elect a breed council who will have to take strict control of the standard and the health requirements before any dog is bred from. They will also need to take advice from the genetic experts and scientists in order to rid the finished breed as far as possible from hereditary problems.

I don’t know and I doubt that anyone knows the history of any individual dog back for say the last 30 years, would imagine in that time at least one unregistered (I mean KC) dog will have been used and it only takes this one dog with or carrying epilepsy to have caused this problem in the dogs being bred today.

This is a matter far more important than squabbling about which dogs are showing a problem because there is no doubt all dogs no matter who owns them or which club the breeder belongs to will be at risk of having or carrying epilepsy, blood clotting problems and HD.

Epilepsy can jump 8 to 10 generations before reappearing and it is possible it could be even longer; this also applies to other health issues particularly eye problems. So you see it is pointless to start blaming one another for a problem that almost certainly started before the proposed breed did.

I felt the above post clarified the thinking of many people so far and was a very worth while post.

It was made clear that this was the persons understanding based on what she had been told. At no point was it made out to be fact.

This does seem like a good idea and i made a similar suggestion to the NIS. However it seems like too much has been said and done (on both sides) for that to ever happen. Thats why forums like this are so important so owners can speak freely to each other thus crossing the devide!

I understand what Abbie is saying, but the fact remains that dogs of the same breeding are being bred from. NIS registered animals are in the breeding of Abbies Dogs, just as they are with TIDA Dogd. The breed has a serious issue with this, its not "club" confined.

It really would be interesting if a genetic condition had allied itself to a faction!

Interesting indeed, a scientific miracle, no less

Wouldnt it just!

It doesnt matter that Abbies dogs are not used for breeding (well it does and thats responsible of her) but direct relations, i.e father etc.. are still being used and bred from. The buck doesnt stop with the affected dogs, the majority of Abbies Dogs breeding is "Mahlek" (NOT implying anything there) all the breeding goes back to original dogs and the father of Abbie's dog is still used, who's to say exactly who is passing on this problem? The responsible thing to do would be to stop breeding these dogs full stop, the ONLY way I can see to stop spread of a disease.

Cant genetic conditions throw themself up many generations down not just immediatly.

Stopping breeding the NI is a very drastic measure and is similar to saying stop breeding Mals because of a health problem. Stopping breeding in the lines where its becoming so apparent should be put into effect as of years ago though.

Yes, especially Epilepsy!

What you have to look at is the size of the gene pool and the "history" of this breed. 20yrs? and a MAJOR health issue already, among other issues that are arising, including Hip Dysplasia.
People breeding these Dogs need to understand what they are producing.

That is what I was trying to say BD, epilepsy can miss numbers of generations and then re-appear so to blame one faction or the other is just plain silly.

If anyone knows the ancestry of the animals now effected for about 20 years back they may be able to find out which lines are carrying, but if they can’t be traced the problem will continue till the type die out or people give up on them.

And also, never has there been a breed created at a time with a greater understanding of genetics, and availability of health testing, yet there are still major problems in the breed. Such a shame, as I think the breed has much potential.