can someone explaine the breed standard of NI {type} dogs to me,, Discussions

Is that the Indian Dog or the supposed Native Indian Dog ?

I remember a conversation about a similar dog some time ago...

http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=58302&highlight=Native Indian

Wow! I had heard stuff about breeding GSDs with sloping backs but haven't seen one that slopey 'till now. Is that normal now?

That is a 'German Shepherd' not an English Alsation.

Is it only me that thinks the Indian Dog looks very underweight?

I don't understand the difference - is that how they do it in Germany then?

I didn't realise that there was a breed known as the English Alsation. I will look into them as its something I have never heard of.

The GSD originated from Germany and type with the roach back is the German original type. The straight back type is the 'English' version, which was previously known as the Alsation.

I expect that's why I've never seen it before. Tx for that Malady. I MUCH prefer the 'English' version.

I think there are stunning examples of both, so I have no preference over either

The GSD only looks like that because it has been stacked that way, stood free if would look much more like a normal dog. No expert in GSDs although I have owned them, but the most noticeably different if seen behaving naturally is more of overall construction than the back. The English type GSD is on the whole a heavier dog with a level top line and because of the weight does not move with the agility of the lighter weight often smaller Euro type with the sloping croup.

Have taken another look at the photo of the GSD and it has a level topline and is more what I would discribe as an English type rather than a Euro one, any true experts around, my thoughts are only from stewarding in the show ring and chatting to judges, I am not an expert.

POD, would like to see more photos of this dog it is not often you see a dog so nice as that one, was disappointed when I looked on the site that Patch found, at first glance they looked a miss matched lot and none caught the eye like the Welsh one did.

me neither, is it KC registered :?

It is merely another name for the GSD - the KC has them registered as German Shepherd Dog (Alsatian).

Some people wish to split the two types, but they are still the same breed (but that is a whole other debate!).

Gosh no Malady! The GSD is descended from the landrace herding dogs of Germany which were of a generic type common to most continental herding breeds, and very similar to the modern day Belgian and Dutch shepherd dogs.

The different types we see in the ring today are the result of showring trends with the exaggerations of topline and angulations bred in to facilitate the all important flashy movement. The modern German showring type is nothing like the originals but the German working type, and particularly the East German type most resembles the originals.

link removed

Thank you for that link. Amazing what can be 'achieved' in 30 generations.

Also thanks to BorderDawn and Pod for the illustrations of front pasterns and hocks, great.

Mary

Just in case anyone misses it America Indian Dogs

http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=87744

thanks pod,

thanks for the link Pod

I love the pictures of the original dogs, before they were 'improved'

I've seen many working types, including the current top winning male, who does have an exaggerated roachback, and although showing them has exaggerated this more, I was merely explaining the different types.

When speaking of type in relation to breeding lines, you have to generalise. If you look hard enough you could find individuals of any type in each of the disciplines and there is also some crossover in the breeding..... but generally the working lines are less exaggerated than the showlines and have greater resemblance to the originals.

The modern German showlines are very different, possibly more unlike the originals than some of the UK bloodlines.

Alsatians / German shepherds, regardless of being English, German, or any other countries lines are the same breed regardless of banana backs / slopes, or straight backs, etc etc, and both names are correct for the one breed as they have both been the official breed name past or present.
The exaggerated versions are not within the breed standard but are still Alsatian/GSDs - its such a pity, [ for the dogs], that so many apparently poorly sighted or easily `opinion manipulated for fashion` judges don`t stop placing dogs which are not within the criteria