Sappala husky Discussions

This is what I meant in my original post by saying it was an incredibly complex issue. Apart from everything else, there is a huge amount of politics within certain parts of the breed - none more so than amongst those who purport to preserve the Seppala lines in the US. Jeffrey Bragg is one of the main protagonists and Doug Willett is another. Both of them consider the Seppala Sled Dog to be a separate breed and not a Siberian Husky at all. I believe that neither Bragg nor Willett register their Seppalas with the AKC and, indeed, regard AKC registration as pointless.
What people in the UK regard as a Seppala, however, is still a KC registered Siberian Husky. Some within the Seppala fraternity refer proudly to the Seppala "percentage" in their dogs, but Willett, who popularised the idea of "percentages" recently came clean and admitted that it was little more than a marketing technique, meaning very little.
I could go on all night, but you get my point about how complex it all is!

Mick

I love Seppala dogs, they are stunning dogs old and 'new', and without Leonhard Seppala, where would Mals be today ??!!

it is a complex issue Mick, but still interesting finding out where everyone comes from with them, like the pics you posted all three dogs were very similar...is the sibe of today bred for showing ? would going back to the origianal look of seppala put a lot of people off what most of us know as the siberian husky ? 2 of the seppala I had seen in particular were dead ringers for my own 2 inuits...

I think it all depends on who bred the huskies..
It won't put people off because everyone goes for their preference of type..
If they run their dogs then they will get a working "type" if they show they will get a show type..if they do both then they will get a middle of the road type..


Mals are the same.. there are the show type and the work type (but I must admit the work type to me are better in the show ring than the show type..but thats cos I prefer dogs that CAN work beacuse that is what the dogs are bred for..and if they can't move then they don't fill the criteria..they may look pretty but if they can't pull a sled then whats the point?!?!?)

Some sibes of today are bred for working, some for showing and most for dual purpose... same goes for mals, sammies, hell even rotts, dobes, staffs etc

As for the pics Mick posted I see a lot of differences in them all..
The modern Seppala type is the leggier leaner racing type
The middle of the road type..is shorter and more compact but looks well able to complete a days work whilst looking showy

The US show type..is much stockier and broader with shorter legs..looks more like a mini mal..

Personally the dual purpose middle of the road type that can do both is the way to go..

but the diehard mushers would disagree as would the diehard showers

The problem is, as I have been trying to point out, there is actually no such thing as "the original look of the Seppala" as Seppala's original imports were themselves very varied. The first picture I posted on this thread was one of Seppala's original dogs, but to me it looks much more like some of my dogs than do "modern" Seppalas or US show dogs. Other "original" Seppalas have different "looks."

The bottom line is that the Siberian Husky breed is a US developed breed. The first Breed Standard, produced in 1930, was an attempt to capture the essence of the breed on paper - to produce a template by which dogs could be measured and assessed as to their quality. In a recent discussion on a Siberian Forum, someone made a very good point about "type" and "look" in the breed. They said that if you put all Siberians on a continuum from 0-100 with the extreme racing type dogs at one end (0) and the extreme show dogs at the other (100), all the dogs between, say, 40 and 60 would be good standard fitting Siberians. Having said that, the dog at 40 might not resemble the dog at 60 very closely. We have found this in our own showing career when one of our dogs (60) took 7 Reserve CCs to another dog (40). They were different to look at, but experienced judges looked past "type" in their assessment of the dogs.

Mick

Great post Mick, important points well made!

It seems in many breeds that the standard is regarded as a blueprint and that every dog must conform to a rigid type. In fact no standard can be so precise as to define measurement to this degree, so there is always room for interpretation and variation. And I believe most breeds have similar origins to what you describe for the Siberians where selection was based primarily on performance, which allowed a degree of diversity in type.

In most breeds IMO, a judge would have to ignore some rather serious faults in order to have a line-up in every class, of dogs that conformed to the same proportions and type.

I do so admire judges who can see passed type and often risk ringside critiscism in so doing.

Mick, the racing Seppalas type look beautiful,

Like the middle dog being half way between racing and show type, so that they can do either running or showing

the US show type, mini mal look a like, not really for me at all

Personally, I'm not a great fan. For me, they are too fine and "racy". I would rather have a dog with the substance to work day after day over long distances in arctic/sub-arctic conditions. This is what we aspire to with our dogs who can both work and show:





Mick

is a seppala hip score same as sibe, I mean would they be scored as the same type husky, or would it differ because of the longer legs ?

Seppalas are sibes! In the UK all registered Siberian Huskies (whether "Seppalas" or any other bloodlines) are tested and scored in exactly the same way. The current breed average is 7.
This, obviously, only relates to those KC registered dogs which are X-rayed and tested. I imagine the scores of the thousands of badly bred unregistered dogs are likely to be considerably higher.

Mick

thanks mick x

Mick
fantastic pics of the Sibes in action

Thanks for putting these pics on, it is very interesting to see how the dogs vary. Can I ask about tail carriage please? The two in the show ring both have their tails down. My favs out of the pics you have put on (simply for prefered look) is the US Show dog and the one of yours.

They are allowed to have their tails down when at rest..

The breed standard on tails/tailset:

"Tail
Well furred or round fox brush shape set on just below level of topline and usually carried over back in a graceful sickle curve when dog at attention. When carried up, tail should not curl too tightly, nor should it curl to either side of body, or snap flat against back. hair on tail of medium length and approximately same length all round. A trailing tail is normal for dog when working or in repose."

Mick

QUALITY Huskies Mick!

Thanks, I was just curious. I remember when watching 'Eight Below' there were some tail down scenes, lovely dogs.

The sibe with the blue eyes in this photo has a %age of Seppala in him going back to Togo and Fritz who were half brothers bred by Leonhard Seppala and were just two of the dogs that did the Serum Run in 1925 to help save the people of Nome when the Diptheria Epidemic took hold.

Although he is not full Seppala he holds a few of the Seppala characteristics of them and looks very similar to some of his relations who are from the Kazachye Kennels who are high % Seppala lines and going back to the Markovo's and then back to Togo and Fritz..who incidently were both part Sibe part Mal.



This is a card that was bought back for me from the Iditarod. It shows Leonhard Seppala with some of his dogs. The one he has his arm around is Fritz.



Jan.

I own 6 high % seppalas and they are no more leggy than any other bloodline imo. Some have longer legs than others but so do other lines. I think the main difference with tracing Sepps back to the original dogs is that you can do so in far fewer generations than with most other lines.
This is a photo of one of our dogs that we imported from Finland, he did mid distance races and lived outside in temps of -20 and below.

This photo shows him in wheel on my team last season, the other 3 dogs are all part Seppala

Tracey

Have to agree with Tracey.
We've got pure & part strain Seppala here & they don't have anymore leg than than other bloodlines, either, in fact one of them is the smallest bitch we have.

Possibly the long-legged thing came from seeing adolescent
Seppala/type dogs.
They take forever to 'mature'.
We have a saying in our household -

'Seppalas are like a good cheese - they just keep getting better with age'
(thankfully they don't smell as bad!!!)