Why do we get so het up Discussions

I don't know why people get so het up about it :-( I just wish that folks would accept the breed for what they are...stunning.

There's always some that will try and put a spanner in the works, and thankfully the N.I Society has stood thier ground. I very nearly joined the 'other Society' and I'm glad I didn't. I'm not a member of the N.I Society either.

I think the same happens no matter what breed you own. The GSD breed goes through the same thing. God help anyone that brings in something that isn't the standard B&T short coat

The point is you can't get a pink border it isn't a naturally occuring colour.
For poodles initially only Blacks and whites were acceptable, then Browns and blues, then the lighter silvers apricots and creams, and recently reds. The breed standard has evolved as people have decided to breed non-standard colours and get them accepted so I don't see that I'm doing anything different to those who got the other colours accepted in the past!
Becky

Of course it is , its one of the most important issues, as well as keeping their excellent temperaments.
one of my main concerns is that the people who go off and start another group up, seem to be not satisfied with the N.I as it is and want to add other breeds, I for one find this completely unnecessary.

Rhubarb! genuine breeders wouldnt dream of breeding "wrong" colours, people concerned with the breed, any breed, will adhere to the standard laid down for it. dont go on about "the country of origin" as if you want to take that stance, we would of had a lot of crop eared Dobes etc... cos they did it in Germany! You purposely want to bred wrong coloured poodles for what? come on? they cant be showed, or they can and not placed, you said earlier another dog you are bringing in is the hope you have for getting to crufts, so what is this poor fellow doing here? Just because?

How long have you owned Poodles for Becky?

I am agreeing with you but it obviously is not important to other breakaway groups.

Cooper is KC registerable and showable, the KC view his colour as a fault in the same way that a dog that is too big or too long in the back etc etc.
Becky (sorry I missed your post!)

Yes Jackbox, the colour Cooper is is NOT accepted in the UK Kc standard, only solid colours. You can show anything, regardless of its colour, doesnt make it right though, some people just like to prove a point!

Ah but ear cropping is illegal in the UK, that's something we can't change!
So what you are saying that those breeders in the past who bred (at that time) wrong coloured poodles, were wrong? Cooper can be showed and will be shown once he's in full coat, however, I know he probably wont get anywhere but then when I showed undocked dogs of tradtionally docked breeds before the ban I knew I was going against the grain then too! Look what's happened now :smt002
Becky

Parti`s are an accepted colour according to their origins though, they are not something `new` ;-)

Is`nt that the case of every breed standard though -accepting or faulting dogs purely on coat colour `cosmetic value` irrespective of everything else which really matters ? [ and irrespective of `working` dog colours where applicable, I mean purely on the human `aesthetics preference` side of it ].

Just as a norty hypothetical :smt077 lets say there were only two Border Terriers left in the world which you could choose between -

Dog A ] standard coat colour but has a bad mouth, luxating patellas and HD

Dog B ] no health defects, physically and mentally true to type - but red merle in the color department

Can`t speack for Becky on this point but to throw in my tuppence worth - if the other colours were more common and were considered `show ring acceptable`, would that not reduce any `novelty value` and therefore the prices, so making them no more financially viable to produce than `standard` colours ? [ I`m assuming there are no known health issues related to colour in Poodle, just so you know I have considered that side of it ]

Purple would be better

But what is the point of showing a dog, you absolutely know will not even be looked at..:? the same goes for Boxers, there is nothing to stop anyone showing a "White" but why put yourself through it....just to prove a point, you would have to have the disposition of steel, to go into a ring with a dog, that has such a obvious fault.

And a dog that is to tall , long in the back, to short is something a good handler can hide, it does not shout out to you....the dog will blend in with the others in all other ways.

I have seem many over tall, short, Boxers being placed, but I have never seen a white even go inot the ring.

Dog B, as I dont want to breed wrong coloured dogs, nor import them, I work mine and showing it would be pointless.

They ahve never been an accepted colour here, they are not in the breed standard as accepted, if Becky wants to breed and show them, she should do that in a country that accepts them, not bring them here, she said herself many of the otehrs who have them are TOTALLY money oriented, breed for breedings sake.....!!

Shut yer face!!

Ill await that time with baited breath!

Come on becky, you just want something "different" like all the others you have had. Admit it, it has NOTHING to do with standards or anything else, you said it yourself, you like tan pointed dogs!

But NEVER parti or phantoms, thank you for pointing that out.

Because eventually they get accepted by the pure fact they are out there, hence I qualified two undocked dogs of traditionally docked breeds for Crufts eventually!
Maybe a white Boxer in the ring will be my next challenge :smt002
Becky

So how come a parti standard got it's stud book number back in the late 1800's then if they had never been acceptable?
The point I'm making, and you're choosing to ignore, is that the acceptable colours of the poodle in the standard have been changed before so why can't they be changed now?
Several breeds relatively recently have had their breed standards altered for colour after much campaigning by (in your opinion) unethical breeders so that they are now accepted.
Please explain to me why you seem to accept that it has been OK for breed standards to be altered in the past but not now?
You are even offering your services to the NI world to rewrite their own breed standard, so why do you feel that needs 'altering' but no other breed is allowed?
Becky

I'm confused, if the parti poodles arent recognised or in the breed standard how can you show them......Sorry I'm probably being thick here, but Wouldnt the colour be classed as a fault.

If you succeed Becky, I'll be trying for the white/blue and liver GSD's for the ring ;-)

Yes it would be classed as a fault but as nigh on every dog shown has a fault of some kind if we excluded every dog with a fault from being shown you could pack up and go home by 9.30am!
Becky

when was that Beck, I would love to have seen that, did you take them to Crufts, what year was it, I bet my old mate (he is as old as the hills ) will remember that;-)

You go for it!!!!!!!!;-)

I don't understand why they aren't showing them now if they meet the standard in every other way! Well as near as is possible!
Becky