Working Spaniels-Tail Docking Controversial

I wouldn't go so far as to say it 'prevents' it but it should minimise the risk as there is less tail wafting around to get snagged.

True you could go to a shoot and see the only damaged tail was a docked one but that proves nothing other than that dog was the only one that got in a tail damaging situation.

Totally understand what you are saying, especially on the loopholes - typically weak Political decision as usual, thats what enables loopholes in so many things :?


On the showing side, do you think more breeders of potential show quality dogs are likely to leave tails intact if only because showing is so expensive that its a lot to put in financially through a dogs career only to be stopped from reaching the top if thats where they would have headed ? [ if their dogs were considered good enough by the judges they are seen by that is ].

[ and thank you for enabling us to have an interesting discussion about it and not a row ]

On that issue though, for tails to get snagged it would usually be down to tail feathering - so why not just keep the feathers clipped neatly so there is covering but no flowing coat to get snagged on brambles etc ?

Crufts really isn't the be all and end all of dog showing. It has a high profile with the general public, but to many, it's just another championship show. Many breeds do in fact have their premier breed club show as the highlight of the year, where the judges are chose by breed specialist... and these usually attract much higher entries than Crufts. GSDs for instance have very low Crufts entries compared to club shows.

Don't see why docking should stop a dog being made up Jackbox? If anything, it's going to help.

I think docked dogs continuing to be shown can only be a good thing for the breeds concerned, as this will help to stop the work/show divide widening.

The point I was trying to make is that docking has always been touted as a 'prevention' of tail damage when clearly that isn't the case!
Becky

Poodles are clipped in order for them to do the job they were bred for more efficiently, if you want to use that argument, then why are they still messed about with and made to look silly just for the pleasure of their owners?

Well I can only say for my breed, as it is a working breed, no loopholes there, to allow docking....I know most of the top breeders are now leaving tails on....because the have to.

True, many many, people find Crufts a chore, to many public milling round messing with there dogs without permission.

But I guess, for anyone who shows their dogs, winning Crufts is a dream we would all like to achieve.

Well it wont, all it will stop is being able to show said Champion at Crufts..... so it depends on what you want more to exhibit at Crufts or Make up a Champion;-)

Completely agree......

Clipping a coat is hardly the same as chopping off a tail. As to looking silly, that's just a matter of opinion, if it doesn't affect the dog then what's the problem?
Becky

Tail or no tail, I would much rather be known for my dogs demonstrating their ability to do the job for which they were bred, than to say 'it went to Crufts'!!

How do you know it doesnt affect the dog? Do you turn a deaf ear and a blind eye to all the other dogs pointing and laughing?




<running for cover

Same as the problem with a docked tail, the coat is designed to protect the dog, the tail is docked to protect the dog, of course its a matter of opinion

Its pointless saying chopping off the coat doesnt affect the dog, neither does docking a tail, as most anti dockers say its "cosmetic" what else can chopping the coat off be??

I think you'll find most anti dockers thinking docking is cruel and an abusive procedure carried out on a tiny defenceless puppy.
Becky

You can use that argument on docking, if it does not effect the dog whats the problem.

because the procedure does affect the dog, not only as a tiny puppy causing pain but also has affected some dogs right into adulthood, I know I had one who had stump problems.
Becky

I `ve had Boxers for many yrs, also know many people who own then , also now of many gundogs, and never know or seen such a problem.

Causing pain is debatable depends on your opinion.

It's not opinion it's fact! Read the report the CDB have (fritsch?) it actually states they feel pain but have an inability to react appropriately. It was my Boxer who had problems with his stump!
Becky

Where on there does it say they feel pain.
this is all I can find.


http://www.cdb.org/fritsch.htm

http://www.cdb.org/faqs.htm

Yet drowning puppies of the same age is considered to be "humane" and doesnt cause any lengthy suffering!

You cut the coat of your Poodles because you want to, just purely for the way it looks, you put clippers on the faces of 3 week old puppies, and think thats ok, please dont tell peole what is cruel becky, it can be measured on several levels!

right first and formost,docking does cause the puppy pain,i iknow this as fact iv seen the procedure done countless time,and the banding method,i feel imo is the worst as,the band is put on they dont cry straight away but as it starts to go numb they try to avoid sitting on that part for days after it is done.the docking video shows you just the band going on not the time videod over a week as the tail shrivells and drops off,thats whats the worst,when its a raw wound,and they cry and you lose pups from speciema,to haer me who breeds boxers say this,it needs said.many breeders say it dont hurt and it does,but most of feel it saves a lifetime of hurt as there older in diffrent ways and im not going into it now,
the straight forward cutting by the vet is better for a start there is one yelp,very little blood,some of our pups have been sleeping when its done yelped and gone back to sleep,the stuff is put on to stop bleeding and it heals quite quickly lets say 1 week till scab drops off,however i hear you say well its still docked,yes but a week and its all over ,the banding is a week till it drops off then a sore open wound ,for another week so banding isnt all its cracked up to be,docking will be done in northern ireland for the forseable future,and even though we still have vets do ours,its about time someone stood up and said YES it does hurt,and you know if i come back as a dog id rather be a poodle than a boxer,;-)

the point of this post was not that certain types of docking one over the other is best but which ever way it hurts,but the least and less pain is surely the better way to dock,if its still to be done.as for poodle clipping ive never done it cant coment.xxzbxx

good reading please read xx
http://www.cdb.org/vet_question.htm

I know we've done dew claws before (but we've done spaniel tails before) but I wondered if any of you that are against docking for working reasons are also against the removal of dew claws ?