Working Spaniels-Tail Docking Controversial

Does anyone on here still dock tails of their working spaniels following the new legislation?

I keep seeing litters advertised that are docked but we're expecting our first litter of working cocker pups and I'm struggling to find a vet that will do them.

CDB aren't much help these days to be truthful.

Do you work the parents of the pups and are all pups going to go to working homes? If not, then you will find it hard to have a vet dock them.

It's worth mentioning that if the pups go to sport homes such as agility then as far as I know they wouldn't be able to compete at shows where the public pay to enter such as Crufts if they were docked.

http://www.walesgundogservices.co.uk/
These should be able to help you.
Dawn,

Working dogs wouldn't even be allowed at gamefairs etc. in any KC ruled part either!!!

What exactly does the legislation say? :?

I'm so confused, my Gundog trainer works his Springer Spaniel bitch but told me the other week that he'd had to leave all her pups with tails!? He was a devastated, understandably, but I thought that as long as you could prove the majority would be going to working homes you could still dock?! :?

Macman, at risk of you taking this the wrong way, did`nt you think of all this when planning a litter ? If you don`t already have working homes lined up [ if you have bred from working stock ], you need to be aware that licenses and proof of the buyers intent to legally work a pup have to be produced for each pup concerned and fraudulent cases will be penalised if/when caught so its not worth the risk of not having everything legally `correct`.
If you managed to get them legally done in terms of paperwork but with no real intent of buyers working them you could be in hot water [ buyer and breeder face the same penalties of up to £20,000 fines, possible imprisonment, and probable ban from keeping dogs ], so if you have`nt already got everything in place from before the litter was conceived [ all the more reason for no litter ever being planned without a waiting list in place for however many pups might be born and at least half the number again of the maximum likely litter ! ], you would seriously be better leaving their tails intact - at least then if any turnout to be good enough quality they could be Shown, and, [ as agility has been mentioned ;-) ], experienced agility people prefer our dogs to have a full working rudder anyway so your choice of potential number of good future homes will be vastly larger than if you have their tails cut off - there are a heck of a lot more people wanting dogs who don`t do activities involving killing other animals than those who do, and most people who work their dogs tend to use lines they already know so you would be limited to find `genuine` buyers who can [ genuinely and legally ], fullfil the legal criteria to have tails cut off any pups in your impending litter - and no you can`t have them all done on the strength of one licenced buyer - can you tell at under 5 days old which `might` work and which `might` be show quality or could have a career in a home who do fun activities with their dogs or which would be perfect for a family looking for a suitable pet....?

Just to point out Patch, Cocker Spaniels are a split breed and as such it's highly unlikely that working stock would sufficiently fit the breed standard for the dogs to be viably shown (in the majority of scenarios). ;-)

Also remeber a lot of folk who want a gun dog will get a pup based on working breeding regardless of whether it's been docked or not and if not - just do it themselves.

Its here :

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2007/draft/20075778.htm

I`m confused as to why anyone would be `devastated` [ even more confused that his `devastation` could be considered `understandable` ], that healthy pups can`t be put through it. Does he seriously prefer the idea of a container of bits of bone, flesh, skin, muscles, blood, etc and pups being made to needlessly suffer the pain, or die from blood loss or infection, to the living breathing healthy unharmed whole pups with proper tails to use

I know but I don`t know if Macmans impending litter is from working or show lines [ or neither in particular ], so was trying to cover all the bases :smt001

Thanks for the link.

But I have to say this:

Patch, please don't start. You have your opinion on tail docking and I have mine. I don't push my opinion in your face so please don't do it to me. I asked a question which you've kindly answered and yet you can't help but force you opinion on me. Don't do it please, I don't appreciate it.

At the end of the day you can spout "evidence" til the cows come home, but it is clear to me that you know nothing about country life, living it, working it and more importantly working Gundogs.

I'm guessing my Gundog trainer seriously preferred the idea of saving his Gundogs from having their tails ripped from their backsides. But then I don't expect you to even begin to understand the concept. All country people want to do is live and work in the countryside like they have done for generations. And they were all doing brilliantly until the "town" brigade started sticking their noses in.

This thread was NOT designed for a docking debate, so PLEASE, keep your opinons to yourself.

"Patch don't start"

That made me chuckle

We've all been here before - let's count to ten

Ah thanks for that Phil, I can feel the anger simmering a bit now. I needed that! :smt043

how about some middle ground.......

A 3/4 tail LOL

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Yeah, I much prefer the 3/4 look anyway!

Not getting into this one, we all know my thoughts!
And hearing the fact an undocked ESS who was out on a shoot with her owner, ripped her tail so badly she had little skin left on her back end in general after injuring ehrself out on a shoot, just afirms my opinion of pro docking.
And don't pick this post to pieces and shove facts and figures about me please.

I was questioning why the person you mentioned was devastated, that was`nt pushing anything in your face at all, it was a question about that way of thinking by that person, [ you brought it into the topic don`t forget ;-) ].

Also, as it happens I grew up in the country [ Norfolk ], and members of my family [ aunts and uncles ], owned and worked a shoot, [ and to the families eternal shame they used to go big game slaughtering - hunting - in Africa `for sport` in the 70`s and early 80`s, lining their home with be-headed `trophies` of their kills - I went once for a family do, did`nt know they did big game hunting until that time - I saw the horror of the kills, walked out, refused to speak to them again, and never have since that time ], so please don`t tell me where I did or did`nt grow up nor what my actual knowledge of country life is, and the split it caused in my family for several decades - I don`t appreciate you doing that considering how very wrong you are in your assumption about it. From when my father left the military when I was a child, I grew up surrounded by the killing of animals for `sport` and animals farmed for meat - my knowledge of both is why I`m an anti-hunt vegetarian.
My uncles working dogs did all have their tails btw, Spaniels and working Labs, and never once had a tail injury among any of them - they suffered plenty of bloodied ears and damaged feet mind you...

I answered the OP from the legal viewpoint and information pertaining to that - you were the one who brought in how some hunter feels about it on the emotional side of it -the viewpoint I tried very hard to keep away from in my response to the OP ;-)

Patch.......................

I really don't think anybody is questioning your 'countryness' despite Rips reference to the 'town brigade'

You're both as bad as each other and should be punished LOL