Working stock dogs Discussions

As most know, I own ISDS registered working border collies. I would only ever buy from ISDS registered working stock.

I read a very interesting debate regarding whether only working stock collies should be bred from. The traits bred for generations in working collies also make them great for sports such as obedience, agility and flyball, other jobs like search & rescue, or active pets. Therefore, is there really any reason to breed (and possibly dilute the inherent working genes) from any other collie than a proven working stock dog?

Views please.

My answer would be yes. All breeds need to adapt to their usage, yes the border collie still does it's natural job in this country but as you say there are different areas where border collies are used.
In terms of pets, the border collies rescues themselves including the lovely one you posted advised strongly if you were looking for a pet to steer away from the strong working lines and farm bred dogs. This is to be respected. I was refused some puppies from certain places as even with all my activities, this was not enough for some dogs. I respect their view.
In terms of some sporting areas, different people differ on their views. Agility has a mix of dogs, obedience people I have found again is a mix, some people look for the best of both worlds looking for a mix of working/show lines.
I do not see any problems with dilluting the traits of collies, especially seeing too many working collies in rescue unsuitable for a pet home as their drive is too high.
As I said before most breeds have adapted to todays society and their original traits diluted. I don't thing it's a bad thing if you look at what some breeds were bred to do.
There's room for us all. I'm more concerned about totally unsuitable people having border collies in the first place, not whether the breed traits are being dilluted.

i have a mix of working and show bred collie, he is the perfect mix! jmvho

I have had collies from show lines,working lines,and a mixture of both. Personally i prefer mine from working lines,the boy i had from show lines I found difficult to motivate for obed. and working trials,butif we were out about sheep he was very steady perhaps too steady.
But the two I have at the minute(not ISDS) are very motivated and up for any thing the youngest one continually herds anything my poor cats!! Now as for having them amongst sheep although I have exc. control and can drop them on one command, I really feel I wouldhave no control amongst livestock its only unfortunate i had to move here to look after my father in law as I used to spend a lot of time on a hill farm in Argylle.
Now I.m waffling

Jeanette

Just playing Devil's Advocate here :twisted: but perhaps the people who can't handle an "undiluted" collie should own a different breed in the first place?

Perfect mix for what though?

Are they unregistered working line dogs then?

My blue merle bitch her mum is ISDS her father although a very good working dog isnt.
My pup def notreg,hermother got rid of because she got caught first time in season,they were born in a ditch and broughtover from Ireland.
They def (IMO) are not dogs to have goneto "pet" homes although they dont get any sheep work (I wish they did) I do have to keep them mentally stimulated(exc. tracking dogs)
People still tell me they got a collie because they are so easy to train!!!!! then they had a problem they couldnt cope with and then the poor dog ends up in rescue

perfect mix for health testing results, temperement, for working ability on stock, for responsiveness in obedience, agility and flyball (tested and working on all but flyball at the moment), the huggiest dog in the world and a true companion.

as a note of interest he is a total mismark and wouldnt get anywhere in the ring but is still KC reg and is also ISDS reg.

:smt075 :smt062 :smt071 :smt084
Right I feel better now
I don't think that is the case at all. I could handle a "undiluted" dog, however is it really kinder to have a dog that has a very strong working trait and keep it as a pet? That in my mind is cruel to the dog. I think it is far better to go for a quieter type, something that will be happier doing the level of activity of the owner.:smt044

Bill, one of OH's working dogs, is unregistered (but from working parents) and is a great working dog, so there are good unregistered dogs around. I just like to have the papered history of my dogs, therefore choose to have ISDS reg dogs.

However, if I viewed a really good worker with a good temperament, who wasn't registered I might be tempted.

I am going off topic now though!

Alot of people in obedience do like the mix or show lines. It just depends. It's not black and white (oh I made a joke ) It's looking at the lines behind a dog and alot of experience in what your looking for.

Thanks for your reply Kicks. Personally I think you would still get all you wanted (from your own description) if you had chosen a pup from a well-bred pure ISDS litter.

I know what you are saying but I guess that starts to get us into the realms of keeping collies as pets at all. I don't have any problem with collies being sport dogs or pets, so long as they get the mental stimulation they required. I do believe though that the right home would be able to provide an undiluted dog with enough stimulus to keep it happy.

Kicks please correct me if I'm wrong are you talkin about your Felix

He is ISDS breeding specifically back to Sadghyl Pip and personally I feel from out standing ISDS stock and not show breed at all.

So you have got a pup of those qualities from an execptional well-bred pure ISDS litter

Watch what you're saying, we're heading into the realms of agreeing again LOL
What sort of home, in your opinion would be the right one for a dog you didn't work, for an "undilluted" BC.

Isn't he a Bryning bred pup though and therefore dual registered?

Edited : I have since checked out the breeding, and Felix is pure ISDS lines

I am fairly open-minded to be honest. I think either a home that used the collies natural ability and brain capacity - some kind of dog sport, tracking, working trials, obedience, agility, flyball or just a really active family that involved the dog in all their activities, trained it to a decent level and enjoyed ball games and the like.

I am not really talking, in this thread, about people who don't work their dogs owning collies, but just whether only working stock dogs be bred from.

Just wanted to point out that being ISDS and KC registered does NOT mean a dog is a mix of lines. If you are talking about a certain dog bred by a friend of mine, by my dog, he is pure working lines. Any ISDS dog is eligible for KC registration, however not the other way around.

I also think that people should just have and breed what they like. I personally breed and own ISDS dogs and this will never change, but my friends have show lines, ISDS lines, and a cross of the two. Horses for Courses.

Laura
Corrie Dhu Sheep Dogs

Moobli think Corriedhu has answered perfectly your question