Split thread/ Why were NI's in the Working Group? (Comp show)

I have nothing bad to say about the NI dogs, but I am baffled as to why you think that because a dog is 'capable' of pulling a sled, it should therefore be in the Working group ??

Many breeds of dogs are all 'capable' of doing other breeds' jobs, it does not mean that you can enter them in whichever group you choose that you see fit at the time !!!

Abbey the shows you refer to ARE companion shows whether they are held at Agri shows or not. If they are not held under KC/FCI rules, they are companion/Fun shows (ie, no specific rulings or regulations).

And by the way, only 2 of the 3 dogs known, used to create the NI were from the working group. The other 1 was not.

GSD's are from the Pastoral Group and it's anyone's guess what the other 2 unknown breeds were in.

As for the NI being capable of working a Mal or Huskies job ! Even the Idiot NI breeders in my area spoke common sense one day by saying that because of the difference in the structure of the Mal and the Husky, when they are mixed, it causes complications with regard to working. When you also take the addition of the GSD into consideration, with it's breed trait of bad rear legs and hip problems, even they wouldn't risk working a NI to pull a sled and risk harming the dog.

There has to be a logic, a reason and a purpose as to which group the NI fits into.

Does the Ni have a purpose in the working group ?
Does the NI have a valid reason to be in the working group ?
What logic is being the NI being in the working group ?

The NI was bred to be a companion dog that resembled a wolf, therefore it would fit perfectly into the Utility Group (looks and companionship) wouldn't it ??

Most dogs in the Utility group derived from other breeds from other groups, but the descendants don't matter, it's what the dog is bred for now that matters and determines which group it should be in !

Abbey would you have been as happy if a Cat had won the Dog show ??

Jane congrats to you, Sacha and Laiden, your dogs are beautiful, seems like sour grapes to knock your wins, you won, the judge chose yor dog, so what if there wasn't the precise class for your dog at that particular show, it was down to the judge and organisers of the show to advise you on which class to enter. Well done

I'm not getting into the argument as to what counts as a working dog, as from what I see of 'pedigree' dogs I doubt that they all could do the job they were originally bred for.

I do not know what to reply to this as I have never heard anything so pathetic. All this has come from me putting on some pictures of my dogs doing well at a show. For some reason this seems to have upset 2 people that I have never met. Well if you have nothing better to to do than try to discredit people I'll leave you to it and hope that in future when I post photos of my dogs that you have the decency to say nothing if you don't like them.

I was actually just sharing a humerous situation I found myself in with one of my dogs, when they didn't ask what breed they were - I didn't realise it would offend anyone I have removed the paragraph lest it should offend someone else.

It is such a shame when asking questions because people are curious about something turns into people thinking they are bad mouthing a breed :-( I was genuinely curious as to why they were in the Working group - certainly no loaded questions there, unfortunately the one person I had respect for due to the fact they answered genuine questions and didn't see them as a slight on the breed no longer comes on here which is a shame :-(

I think you'll find I did comment on how well they did in the Agility (one of my hobbies too) - you certainy didn't upset me I was just curious about what I considered to be a genuine question :? It is such a shame that people are always on the defensive when ever someone asks a question :-(

just got back from vets with one of my northern inuit males,sat opposit me in the waiting room an older couple were talking and the bloke said to his partner that my dog was a nice looking chow!!!!

malady, despite your numerous posts saying you have nothing against the N.I, it seems to me that you never ever miss an opportunity to snipe at them. I have 2 N.i that will happily pull my rig, they love it though not as focused as say the husky, they are strong healthy dogs with no hip problems and if they didnt like it then we wouldnt do it, maybe if there were a category called 'working but only for fun' then we would enter that.
Ps, on a previous thread you took umbrage at someone calling you something other than malady, mmmmmmmm
quite fitting I think as according to dictionary definition
mal·a·dy [mállədee]
(plural mal·a·dies)
n
1. illness: a physical or psychological disorder or disease
2. problem: a condition or situation that is problematic and requires a remedy


[13th century. < French maladie < Latin male habitus "in bad condition"]
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

ROFL

We were on holiday with friends once when someone commented to another person about our friends chocolate lab (she was in fact a Red Mal ).

Interesting thread. I've done a bit of checking up on classification of two other newly formed breeds for comparison.

The Saarloos and Czekoslvakian Wolfdogs are both in the FCI group 1, section 1 Sheepdogs. It seems the FCI have taken the predominant breed (the GSD) in the make up and not the breed purpose to classify these two.

http://www.fci.be/nomenclatures_detail.asp?lang=en&file=group1

It does actually say in the Saarloos standard -

The Saarlooswolfdog was not bred with any aim for a particular utilization. He possesses qualities which enable him to be a faithful and reliable companion and house dog.

http://www.fci.be/uploaded_files/311gb99_en.doc

I don't think our KC follow the same protocol though. I would expect the NI to go in the Utility group if it did gain recognition.

Well done abbie, Sacha and Laiden You had a well deserved win it's just a shame that some folk can't share that with you

As for the N.I not being in the working breed group, why not? Doesn't 'working' cover quite a few things? Some of which the N.I are very good at.

My N.I is encouraged to hunt, and she's damn good at it too. Wouldn't that make her a 'working' dog? She's also good at agility and flyball, what group would that put her in?

Until such time that the KC recognise the N.I's and places them in thier relevant group, can't we just appreciate what they've achieved, regardless of what group the dog is in?

Malady, why is the idiot N.I owners in your area the only one's talking common sense when they say an N.I can't pull a sled? Or are they talking common sense because it's something that you agree with?

The N.I CAN pull sleds, and do so quite successfully. They may not be as heavily built as the Malamute, but they are incredibly strong dogs.

That's very interesting Pod, thanks for posting. So (forgive my stupidity ) the CWD is in the same group as the GSD?

What a lovely thing to say. It will be interesting to see in the future where they are placed but for now what you say is absolutely right and I agree with you Corrie.

thanx wolfie, you are quite right. they can do anything if they are trained too and are willing, well till they get bored with it lol

I think if you read my first post I did congratulate them (as has been mentioned previously!). There is a congratulations thread active so I find it strange that people who seem to want to congratulate them post here instead and lace it with a sly dig at people who had the temerity to ask a genuine question This thread was split off to answer/discuss the question asked.

I think it depends on your definition of working. Hunting dogs are normally Hound/Gundog and the majority of Agility/Flyball dogs are collies (Pastoral). However Agility/Flyball is a fun activity - it is not working. Collies were obviously bred to herd, hence them being in the Pastoral group. Just because an individual dog has the capability to do and enjoy something else doesn't mean they were bred for the job (my Aussie makes a great lead dog ;-) However take him to Alaska in the conditions the true working Sled Dogs have to work in and he wouldn't survive!).

Yes, they're both 'Sheepdogs'. The FCI seem to base classification on purpose of the ancestral dogs rather than the actual breed. Must say that did surprise me!

Yes that is what I was told by a judge who told me that NI's would be classed as working dogs because of this reason.

However the NI's were originally bred from a combination of Working AND Pastoral breeds were they not? Do you know the percentage of each that went into their genetic makeup?

I don't think that I pointed at anyone in particular Greyhawk, but 'if the cap fits' as they'd say....... ;-)


This is the confusing bit about grouping. What I'd think as 'working group' isn't :?
My GSD's are pastoral, but stick them in a field of sheep, and I'd have one run a mile and the other trying to eat them

My sister has a mal (and a husky until last year :-( ) and neither one could pull sled if thier lives depended on it The Mal loves his warm cozy fire to lie in front of. He'd die if he had to go to temperatures that dropped below 20 degrees

Yes, it surprises me too, although I don't know that much about the classes.

Nope - I think I have merely been asking genuine questions, however another poster has mentioned me therefore I assumed you were too (as 'some folk' to me implies plural - and as far as I can see there are only two people that have asked questions ). Apologies if this was not the case

ROFL - Oh one of mine would love to be in a field full of sheep :twisted:

Did the Sibe and Mal ever get the opportunity to work? One of mine would love to curl up in front of a fire as much as the next dog, however they do run better the colder it gets (though we haven't had temperatures of -20 to try them out in though ). However the other prefers cooler temperatures, they both love to run though

ive been told pointers make fantastic sled dogs,and are beeing used in cold climates.