Reply from No10 re permission to band dogs tails Controversial

but your thread was called: "Reply from No10 re permission to band dogs tails"

The number of dogs getting severe tail injury [ especially when not being deliberately sent or allowed in to what are claimed by pro-dockers to be highly hazardous situations ], is minute compared to other injuries like a cut pad or other things which can happen to any dog on any walk, in the garden, in the home, etc.



But is this because up to now, most of the dogs have been docked, so the information on full tailed gundogs is just not there. Would you call letting a springer run through brambles, gorse, heather etc hazardous?? i wouldn't its just what they do. The difference with a tail is because they do wag them they bash any damgae and it doesn't get a chance to heal.

At the end of the day you have your argument against and i have an argument for, and we will never agree, so its pointless to carry on arguing.

Absolutely true and fair point. So, again, what about Greys? (*see my post earlier).

Also true we each have our arguements, but i'm especially interested in the application of logic here. (#see my earlier post)
As the 'environmental preventive injury' point isn't applied consistently, and my Grey comparison is *always* strangely never responded on every forum i have posted it on....here today as well........maybe because their is no response and i have nailed the 'enironmental injury prevention' pro docking arguement for the red herring it is??? :smt002

The information is there as it goes, in the countries which banned it long ago - the findings so far are that banning it has not led to an increase in injuries.
I prefer to go on facts instead of just what I`d rather believe to suit my corner ;-)

OK, if anyone is feeling daring, from this selection of tails belonging to various breeds, if going through gorse, brambles etc, which are `high` risk and which are `low` risk for injury, and why in each case based on breed would they be candidates for, or safe from, docking, and can you identify each type of dog by visual tail `risk` :

A]



B]



C]



D]



E]

Are they tailed versions of traditionally docked breeds?
Becky

One or more is ;-) :smt077

Yeah it's a tricky one and I'm not entirely sure what to do yet. I could leave them undocked and risk the injuries, I'm hoping that as Isla is bred to be less manic than a "traditional" working Springer her pups will be less prone to tail injuries. Saying that though Isla's breeders' first litter of dual purpose dogs were undocked and they've docked every litter since then. The tails were just getting caught in everything when they were being worked. :-(

Or I could do the above as Becky points out. I really only want to show to make sure I have a dog that still meets the breed standard, what I'm really wanting to do is breed English Springer Spaniels that actually look like the breed, but can work as well. Only problem is I get the feeling that I'd be at a disadvantage having a dog with a docked tail. A bit like the undocked are now really. :?

It'll be a couple of years before Isla's bred though (pending health test results of course), so I guess I'll just watch and see.

:smt039 :smt039 :smt039 :smt039 :smt039 :smt039 :smt039
hello!!!!

My flattie wagged his tail constantly...he was in and out of every type of cover imaginable ALL the time...with his constantly wagging tail...so why aren't flatties docked? PLease don't tell me it's the type of cover they work in as he was in and out of EVERYTHING maybe not working but he didn't know that and to be honest wouldn't have cared...

Mate at work uses Springers for work. In 30 years working these dogs he's never seen an injury to a tail. According to him the most injuries he has seen with the dogs is to their legs when jumping over fences and such. So perhaps we should cut off their legs... "just in case"

And I'm sure if anyone was really worried about their dog being injured there must be some kind of protection that can be used on the tail?

Good post Ian...can't help but agree with you it's a point I've tried to make on similar threads. My dog could cut his paw on glass idiots leave lying around..should I cut it oof just incase?
Biffters hurt his eye in the park, should I have had it removed when he was born, just in case????

I've only been on a shoot once (wouldn't go again not impressed with a lot of the people who attend to be honest) and a dog their injured it's tail. It was a DOCKED springer! So much for docking preventing injury!
Becky

Of course ! and don`t forget my tripod, Willow - oh if only all dogs had a potentially at risk leg removed at birth so they will never have an amputation as an adult like he did.....

My Defa cut an ear badly once, [ on brambles - his tail was fine though ;-) ], so as well as an eye and a paw or whole leg, all ears should be removed also ;-)

Perhaps we should scrap having dogs altogether and get the sheep version as in the news recently - they are already wrapped in cotton wool after all :smt077

:smt039 :smt039 :smt039 hi ramble hope your all fine, not chatted for ages

All fine here ta!!!! Hope you are too!

Patch that's right...all parts of a dog are at risk, we don't realise just how much until they are injured suddenly.

And yet tails are singled out as at high risk but only in some breeds...
Yet no one has had a go at my tail challenge which suprises me, [ or maybe not... ;-) ].
If there is a genuine reason to dock by breed, I would have thought people who agree with docking had x-ray vision with which to to spot the otherwise invisible ` cut here` lines so could recognise those at risk, and those not, easily by sight - perhaps the lack of anyone taking up my little challenge is more telling than anything else which has been said on the subject by either side...... ;-)

Sorry but this has got to be said, why do the anti docking people constantly mock the pro docking peoples beliefs? WHY?!?!
And before you all scream, we're not mocking them! Well tbf, yes you are..the jokes concerning this subject are in very bad taste, and would appear that those making them hold the beliefs of us in favour of docking as a joke..even humerous.
Can't we just all agree that we've NEVER going to agree on this?
Why turn it into another debate?:?

Anti dockers have taken years of mocking, sarcasm, and far worse.
However, I don`t think that has been the case on this thread, in fact this thread is one of the most polite and least unpleasant that I have ever known. Perhaps you are being a bit oversensitive in how you are perceiving it this time around ?
Ramble and Dougiepit are on opposite sides of the fence regarding docking but their attitude toward each other about it is an excellent example to all and has probably been the main factor in keeping this thread much lighter and less aggressive than is the norm for the topic.

You know, whats the point in a thread like this anymore?
Pro dockers have had the choice taken away, anti dockers should be happy-simple as, no need for these threads obviously
Despite the fact in many of the gundog breeds there WILL, not may my friends, WILL be vast splitting of the showing and working breeders..even more than there is atm, a dual gundog will be a long forgotten memory. [and yes that is vital to the subject, especially as this is the gundog subject!]