Reply from No10 re permission to band dogs tails Controversial

I received this to day. as I've stated on another post how are they going to police the microchipping when the pups are docs at 2 days and you cant microchip til 8 weeks.

http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page11550.asp

wish someone would tell my springers that they don't work might stop them running through cover, having just seen a friend of mine have to more or less crate her dog for a month because she has had to have her tail amputated because she kept damaging it running through cover on normal walks i wish there was some way round it, it caused her foart more pain and suffering than it would have done had it been banded docked at a young age.

What a load of bull crap that really is, they don't know the first thing about working dogs. And it's obvious they haven't even thought about dogs that are worked and shown!

I know, my dogs been used at stud I show they work, decided best thing is to dock and I wont show the best in litter.....

Am I missing something here - I'm OK with docking but to me 'banding' is really just a method of docking ?

the difference is instead of cutting the place a band round the tail at such a young age the tail withers and drops off.
My pups sleep through it

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/158345/cosmetic_surgery_for_dogs.html

Docked Tails
Puppies tail are usually docked between the 2nd - 10th days of life. There is no anesthesia used when performing the cosmetic surgery of tail docking, even when performed by a veterinarian. There are two common ways to perform the cosmetic surgery of tail docking, clamping and banding. When clamping, the tail is clamped a short distance from the body. The length of the tail outside the clamp is then cut or torn away.

Banding is a far more painful way to perform the cosmetic surgery of tail docking. Banding is commonly used by breeders. In banding the breeder will dock the puppy's tail by "banding" or tying off the tail. The banding stops the blood supply and results in an infection known as dry gangrene. The dead portion of the tail puppy's tail is then allowed to rot in place until it falls off about three days later.

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Hope that answers your question regarding the method.

**Its an article on various things done to dogs in the US hence the difference in how old pups are when that thing is done to them to this country, [ until sense prevails and all docking stops once and for all like in the more enlightened countries ].

I know the methods

But banding or a knife ?

Docking is docking ?

I got one also

Sorry guys, working section or no working section...hoorah to that.
All for the ban and don't personally think it goes far enough.

All My Dogs run through, Cover including Brambles , heath ,moors ,streams ,nettles, Ferns,woods ,Jump Fences ,mud etc etc

Never have they hurt theyre Tail , I find the subject of ampitating a pups tail , claws etc DISGUSTING, ANd merely cosmetic for the owners !!!

As a Child My dad bred Blue Roan Cocker Spaniels NEVER did he dock, we now Own Bulldogs Again Docking is out of the question

I still cannot see WHY either that gundogs have special rules over other breeds ? surely they all feel pain the same !
Just my take on this

But is it better to put them through major surgery at a later age because their tails have become damaged and infected, i know of one springer owner who doesn't allow his dog in to cover because of the damage she does, and i know 2 in the last month who have had to have tails amputated, this requires MAJOR surgery. I must admiit until i owned the dogs i was anti docking, but having seen how they run and play, in all honesty they are better off without them, just my opinion but there you go.

I don't agree with docking either, but there is some sort of logic to docking tails regards preventing environmental tail injury, until.........................

.............you consider the following point, which i have typed on docking threads on many forums before, but has never been replied to by pro dockers.

What about Greyhounds???

(And less) what about Staffies???

I worked at FOAL Farm dog rescue 10 years.

Greys and Staffies vigorously and obliviously wag their tails against the kennel walls. Several of our Greys and couple Stafies had tail ops incl some length of docking to remove the self-injured portion.

We also had many 'traditional docked breeds' with full tails. Springers, Rotties, Boxers, Dobes. This never happened to any of these.

Yes, you can say the Greys and Staffies didnt have to be in the kennels.. We agree, we didnt want them their either.
But that's some owners for you.
Isn't that what anti dockers say about Springers and bushes ;-)
And Rotties, Boxers, Dobes dont flush in the bush.
What, exactly, is the 'environmental injury prevention' for these?

So, the environmental logic does still apply to my Greys and Staffies.
So, why aren't they members of a 'traditional docked breed' docked for preventing injury. :?
As they aren't, it kind of undermines the applied logic of that very arguement, doesn't it?

:smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt016
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Hi Ramble​

Correct, it is indeed. [ sickeningly ].

And that suprises you ? ;-)

The only reason I'm not getting into an argument is my thoughts and reasons for docking are on here on other threads, this is a thread for gundog owners, which is why I posted it as thought it would be of interest.
All this arguing about docking is off thread as my original post was about how they could police the microchipping bit of the ban.

The number of dogs getting severe tail injury [ especially when not being deliberately sent or allowed in to what are claimed by pro-dockers to be highly hazardous situations ], is minute compared to other injuries like a cut pad or other things which can happen to any dog on any walk, in the garden, in the home, etc.

I have a tripod dog, [ rear leg amputee ], who lost his leg because of a drunk driver, [ I was about to put him in the car when the moron lost control ].

There are many drunk drivers around, [ aka scum of the earth ], so theoretically any dog even on lead is at risk at any time from such morons.
Should all dogs therefore have a leg amputated at birth to prevent the possibility of what I would consider a far more prevalent risk of injury and major op in later life than instances of dogs getting a tail caught on brambles which is far easier to prevent by either not having the dog in them in the first place or trimming tail feathers so there is nothing to get caught up on ? [ strange how these at risk dogs dont have their ears removed too, being at more risk of damage than their tail will ever be at...]


The happy fact is, this law will not be repealed, the other countries who banned it long ago have never repealed theirs because the evidence is simply not there to support it. In the most notable survey done so far in such a country, the most frequently tail injured dogs needing veterinary treatment were Alsatians iirc, and that was with them actively looking for injuries among dogs used for hunting purposes ;-)
Anti-dockers will continue to push for a total ban and sooner or later we will get it through. If that means less dogs being used for hunting to lessen `risk` to tails therefore less hunting happening at all, that would be a bonus

The best way I would think would be for microchipping, [ or tattooing if prefered ], to be a legal requirement for *every* dog. That way, whether feasible or not timewise for police or dog wardens, spot checks `could` then be done at any time on any dog and fines issued for non-chipped / tatooed dogs, so the threat of possible punishment would always be there.
Realistically I would think it would need to be that way for all dogs for it to be fully effective.

[ Edited to add, given the way you titled the thread and included the petition link, its an invitation for people to consider docking as also being on topic imo ].

You can show legally docked dogs as long as the public don't pay an entrance fee, so no Crufts or big champ shows but most small open shows and breed champshows don't charge an entrance fee so therefore they can be shown.
Becky