Punish the Deed not the Breed - But How? Discussions

i also think all litters should be registered regardless of type or cross.
I paid £350 for my Gem but i knew her back ground, I could have brought one locally for £150 and took a chance, but I wonder have many would have choose the cheaper option?

training of some sort but not sure how it would work
I think the reg of all dogs could be a big help also.
its kind of a rule if you buy my pups that if you live within a fair distance that you come to the training club with the pup for training which I offer free to all my own breeding, would love to do it free for all but rent of the hall is the same as rent for a three bed house each month so cant really do it,,,,,

Sorry, but a lot of what's been proposed smacks of nanny state red tape. Just get rid of any breed specific legislation and make owners responsible for their dog's anti social (Dangerous) behaviour. Penalties for offences to be a proper deterent, i.e. BIG fines and/or jail terms.

The idea is to prevent dogs from being a danger. I feel some of the suggestions so far have (Not very..) hidden agendas like controlling who can breed what etc. Right or wrong, x breeds & mongrels are perceived to be less likely to be dangerous than specific breeds.

We just need more regulation. It's about stopping puppy farms and bad breeders who only breed for the money.

Breeding (as long as it's done responsibly) can be done well by a Home Breeder, who maybe only wants 1 litter from their bitch, and is prepared to undertake all the health checks and costs involved.

By registering all litters and puppies etc. when an incidedent does happen (although we always hope their won't be one), hopefully the trail can be followed through to find out what kind of dog it is, who bred it, were they registered/checked out etc.

No-one wants X-breeds to be stopped, but having people churning out pit-bull crosses (for example) has to have some sort of regulation to stop illegal dogs being bred.

Excellent ideas guys!

I agree with much of what you have all said (except for Rich, sorry mate!)

I think education/compulsory training is essential - as it will not only help this 'problem' but as so many dogs suffer through their owners ignorance and lack of responsibility, it will help dogs that way too. So we kill two birds with one stone.

I think owning/taking care of an animal is a privilege, not a right, and whilst I don't like the idea of nanny states either, when it comes to animals I feel we owe it to them to protect them as best we can, otherwise, we'll see more of what happens now - animals suffering because of their owners.

I also think the idea of compulsory chipping is very good. Can these be done at a pups first jabs? It should be made compulsory that vets cannot do vacs/treat animals unless they are chipped - if someone comes in with an animal that isn't chipped it gets chipped there and then or they find another vet.

I also think the chips should keep 'logs' so none of the data gets removed. That way we have a record of who bred the dog, who has owned it etc etc this I think would also be invaluable for rescues and statistics - we'll final get an accurate picture of what's happening to dogs.

(Unethical) Breeders - again I agree with most of you, these are a huge part of the problem. There must be more stringent guidelines for breeding and people should not be allowed to breed willy nilly. As I said before we don't have a 'right' to breed animals, it's a privilege.

Finally (phew!) I agree with x_rose_x, in that we really must be proactive and get off our bums and actually do something, if we don't it will be left to others such as the media and other non-dog lovers, and we all know what happened last time. Knee jerk reactions that led to god knows how many innocent dogs being taken from their families and killed :-(

I agree with the compulsary chipping. Chance was chipped at 8 weeks old, so yes they can be chipped with the vax.
I think everything Azz has said to do with chipping is a brilliant idea.

This is just an idea, so i dont want everyone jumping on me

All breeders should be licenced, and if possible, when rehoming puppies they could maybe do homechecks? To ensure a properly fenced garden etc, basically i think breeders should rehome with the same precedures as rescues.

Thats as far as ive got so far

Just need to think of ways to educate the owners now

I agree totally surely the problem lies with the purchasers of the dogs and the way they are brought up. Breeders have quite limited control over how the dogs turn out eventually. It's nurture not nature, clamp down on dog fighting with longer prison sentences and huge fines. Make every dog owner legally responsible for their dogs actions. The problem is not with specific breeds of dogs but specific types of owner.

Just been reading through the rest of this thread, and i think the best thing would be like everyone has already said, compulsary training

Sorry but fail to see what that would achieve, so what if the owners of dangerous dogs receive training, does that mean they will follow what they have been taught or go their own sweet way just like they do now. These people know how to train dogs that isn't the problem, they are just intent in many cases in training them for a different purpose.

Good point, ill get my thinking cap back on

Sorry Sara, it is always easier to say why something won't work than to come up with a workable solution

Its a part of it, not a sole solution.

Training is vital, so dogs are better behaved, well socialised and less likely to grow into the kind of dogs that make the headlines. (If their dogs don't pass they have to keep going back, meaning more cost to the owner hence an incentive to make sure they pass ;-))

Part of the training will include the law, if people know how it will effect them they may think twice about doing something silly.

The more people know whats acceptable and not, regarding training, dog behaviour, the law, the less likely the idiots have to get away with what they do, because there are more people either willing to speak up, or report them.

It will also undoudtedly have an impact on social attitudes and this is where I believe a large boost is needed and will help quite a lot.

ps I don't see why the penalties shouldn't be increased as well as the other proposals Even more incentive for people to make sure their dogs are as trained and well behaved as possible.

I definately think heavier penaltys will at least make people think twice before going against the law

Not only that Sara, but as most drivers will tell you the standard of driving these days is appalling. People pass their test and then promptly do as they please until caught and fined or imprisoned. Also it doesn't seem to stop them from reoffending either, they even drive while banned.:-(

So you'd think nothing of abolishing the driving test? If you think the standards are low now, and people getting killed because of it, just stop to think how bad that would be if there were no such restrictions.

Thats a very good point

You wouldnt let someone loose in a car without passing a driving test, so maybe owners doing a test WOULD be a good thing, and like Azz said if they fail they keep going back till they pass. The only thing thats got me on this, is how would you know for sure everyone had done the test?

No but I do think the whole idea of compulsory training to own a dog is unworkable and totally cockeyed. The problem owners are in the minority they are the ones that should be targeted. The autorities can't cope now, and I fail to see how training and testing everyone would ever be viable. Driving tests cost money, you need lessons and a specific standard is required to pass the test. If the same was introduced for dog owners who would foot the bill, how would they keep track of everyone, even homeless people have dogs. Or should they be deprived of the companionship their dogs offer, or would the rules not apply to them.
I am 52 years old, I spend hours each day walking my dogs and have done for as long as I can remember, about 40 years anyway. I have rarely if ever met a truly vicious dog. Most reported attacks have been in the home affecting family members. How does that affect the rest of us. A law stating that all dogs can be dangerous and therefore any owner of any dog that bites maims or kills will be treated as though they themselves had committed the crime, with a sentence to match.

Why so defeatist? Driving tests and lessons work. I see no reason why it can't work for dogs too.

Who foots the bill? People who want to own dogs simple as that. If you think about it, most of us who do the responsible thing and learn how to train dogs anyway will only have the additional test fee and licence fee (and chip fee if our dogs are not already chipped).

I am more than happy to pay such fees if it means less dogs will suffer in the long run, not just MY dogs but all those out there that are, right now on your doorstep. "..in the UK alone, at least two dogs are destroyed every hour"

Your proposal does absolutely nothing to help dogs. The higher penalties may be a detterent (or arguably not), but it won't educate people, it won't raise the standards of trained dogs (via trained owners), it won't raise awareness of responsible ownership.. and that's what is lacking right now.

I disagree, so the likes of the homeless people and those on low income ( which does not include me) are deprived of dog ownership why, what have they done?. Their dogs may be perfectly well trained and behave admirably, but because they have other financial priorities they have to forego the joy of dog ownership.:-( Nice for us that can afford to jump through hoops isn't it.

:? I thought the section was titled anti breed specific legislation not how to help dogs in rescues etc. not how to teach people what the word committment means, how does that come under the section title?

Breed specific legislation is all about restricting certain breeds of dogs, Well in fact in this country it is about certain breeds being banned, ( rightly or wrongly) or being prevented from breeding. In much of Europe it has a different meaning as many breeds of dogs can only be walked in public places on lead and muzzled. However certain countries are reviewing their laws as they are proving unworkable.


Ooops really should add I don't think I am being a defeatist I think I am being a realist.