Pigment missing from the eye is associated with the pigment missing from the inner ear, therefore causing deafness. Pigment missing just from the coat is not ! You would have to determine which gene your dog has (pigment from just coat or pigment from both) to determine whether or not the dog would be deaf or not. Also 2 deaf white boxers have been known to produce hearing dogs, therefore confusing the hereditary issue further. There is NO conclusive evidence that just white Boxers without blue eyes either have the gene responsible or carry the gene responsible. The non breeding from white boxers is just a guess at avoiding deafness, when there is evidence to prove that plain or flashy boxers have been found to be congenitally deaf also ! Unless they find the exact gene for congenital deafness in boxers generally, we will never know whether there is more chance of it being carried by white boxers or not, as at the moment it's just guesswork regarding white boxers, but known it whites with blue eyes. I don't think singling out white boxers overall is the solution, but that's just my opinion.
I hope you're not winding me up Malady ... I'm sure you can't really believe this with all the evidence to the contrary. You must have done a search on this? .... but it's interesting writing about it anyway If you can imagine the surface of the inner ear as a continuation of the skin, this should help. During foetal development, melanocytes (pigment cells) migrate from the neural crest to their location all over the body surface. The path of migration is from the dorsal surface outwards, so the ventral surface and extremities are last to be populated. These are the areas most likely to be lacking pigment, and the reason why white marking are most common on feet, tail tip, belly, chest and head. Where pigment is missing in the hair, it will bw white. If it's missing in eyes, they will be blue and if it's missing in inner ear, they will be deaf. The action of some of the S locus alleles is to inhibit this migration and if pigment is lacking in the skin area of the head it is also more likely to be lacking from the eyes and ears because it arrives in all of these locations by the same process. No.... can't make any sense of that. No this doesn't confuse it... just confirms that pigment migration is the critical factor. This migration is not entirely under genetic control, so there will always be anomolies. The gene responsible for what? Remember there is no gene for colour related deafness. Breeding from white Boxers doesn't increase the incidence of deafness in itself... it's the production of white Boxers that does. You could breed from white Boxers safely, without producing whites, so long as they were always mated to a solid. If you read back through this thread Malady, you will see links to the research that will convince you otherwise. Or do a search for Bruce Cattanach or George Strain in relation to this. These are the two most prominant researchers, and there is a wealth of information to back up the current thinking on the white/deafness association.
I don't need to do any searches, much of what I said was taken from the research on the Steynmere site
But Malady, the Steynmere site is Bruce Cattanach's. The geneticist who you though was doing extensive research on bobs not whites.
The March 2001 issue of Dog's Today magazine did an article of white boxers. You can get back issues I think. These are the main points raised: * The basis of Boxers is the Bullenbeisser dogs from Germany. They were mastiff types used for bull baiting and hutning. The breed then gained popularity as a domestic dog. Nastiness was bred out, and the dogs were found to be easily trained and intelligent. They gained many fans including a man from Munich called George Alt who established the Boxer as we know it from these dogs. He also used a french dog of similar type and an English Bulldog. As a result of this mating, one pup was produced who was shown in Munich in 1895. He was called Flocki and was the first Boxer to be entered in the Boxer stud book. Guess what? He was white. * All the top show dogs back then were white and there were more whites than those with colour. * Then came World War 1. Boxers were used in the army. It became quickly apparent that although they were great dogs, the white colour was far too easily seen in the dark and many were shot. The german army then began requesting coloured dogs, casting aside the white ones. * This trend continued during, and then after the war, and also in the other countries that the breed was established. In 1922 the breed standard was changed stating that no more than 1 3rd white was allowed. Breeders did all they could to stop whites being bred, and all white puppies were killed at birth. A connection between white dogs and deafness was also discovered and white dogs became even more unwanted. * This view was also held in the UK. The Boxer Breed Council Code of Ethics states, 'White and abnormal puppies should be humanely put down at birth.' Failure to do this would result in a breeder having their membership of all Boxer clubs cancelled and being excluded from their gatherings. I am not sure if this has now since been changed but in 2001 at time of print it did, and many people strictly adhered to it. * Despite this rule, white hasn't been bred out of Boxers, as the show ring favours 'flashy' dogs- those with white markings on them. Since they carry a white gene when two are mated an average litter contains 50% flashy, 25% colour and 25% white- which is 1 in 4 pups. *Breeders, not so long ago, were so ashamed of having bred a white Boxer, that if they couldn't bear to kill it would resort to meeting Boxer Rescue Staff down Alleys so as not be seen. * Breeders who feel cruel by killing their white pups sometimes keep them, but will only sell to pet homes and without papers. * Not all white Boxers are deaf- a common misconception. * It is estimated that only 10% of white Boxers are deaf, and 4 % of coloured Boxers are also born deaf. The deafness is caused when lack of pigment in the inner ear results in the loss of sensory hair cells. This occurs in other breeds such as the dalmatian, bull terrier, and great dane. * It is my opinion that breeders who supposedly 'love,' their breed should not breed litters with a 25% chance of a white pup being born in, which they only plan to kill. It is not a random occurence, it is to be expected. often the dogs are perfectly healthy and killing them is completely unecessary. * Even those born deaf can lead happy lives, and be successfully trained, using hand signals. No centre or person who supposedly works for 'animal welfare,' needs to or should desire to kill white Boxers. The information above can be given to anyone planning to kill a puppy, and in the Uk the White Boxer rescue can be contacted at: 01772 690458 Sheila Dawson http://www.boxerlinks.com/whiteboxerrescuecentre/
"I really don't understand the stigma surrounding white boxers, just becuase their white doesn't make them any different from their brindle and red counterparts. Our breeder has been breeding boxers for 40 years and in that time she has only had 2 white boxers that have been deaf. x
I have a white girl, she is now 10, and I have had her since she was 7weeks, she has A1 hearing and eyesight.She has a brown eye and a blue eye and has perfect sight in both eyes.....To say the majority of them are deaf and blind is rubbish....:?
iv got two dogos and they are all white and they say that 20 % are born deaf,and culling deaf pups is a normal practice .they are a lighability and usually end up in a shelter becuase of the owners inability to provid prpper care....there hard to sell.those are facts in the dogo breed .i was wondering if white deaf boxers are subject to the some as dogos
I cant speak for what goes on in Canada..but here in the UK, white Boxers are no less a dog than their coloured siblings.. the only restriction on them is not for breeding. P.S .....there is absolutely no practice of culling whites anymore here in the UK
Hi there I have a white boxer who is deaf, she came from a litter of 11, 9 puppies were white 2 reds, mum was a brindle dad was a red. Im unsure if any of the others are deaf and we were not aware she was deaf at the time. The breeder maintains the pup isnt deaf and im concerned if she breeds the same pair again next time the deaf pup may not be so lucky. Just because she cant hear dosnt make her a reject
I find it so disturbing that a vet would just put to sleep two innocent puppies like that! This is one subject that really makes my blood boil! My white boxer, Daisy is not deaf, nor blind or in ANY way different to any brindle or fawn boxer! She is just the best dog ever and we absolutely love her to bits! People just need to give white boxers a chance and they will find out for themselves what wonderful pets they make! I mean, who could ever describe this as inferior?!?- Sorry for that rant, but as you can imagine this is on a subject very close to my heart! Heather
Its ignorance Heather, pure and simple ignorance. Anything that does not conform to the "set" standards is taboo! Beautiful dog.
The genetics are much more understood these days - that means there is no acceptable reason to takes risks when its so avoidable. [ Three of my four deaf dogs, my white collies, are deaf because of idiotic thoughtless utterly avoidable breeding for colour over health....]
