Utonagans and Northern Inuits ????? Purpose ! Discussions

Maloday, are you wanting to buy one of these breeds if not what where the questions for im sure most prospective N.I etc owners would love to come and see these dogs and be able to speak to the relative people, as i did?? This is the best way you get to know a breed surely!!

Like I said before I wanted to ask real people with real experience, as any society for any breed is going to promote them in a good light, sometimes not being detrimentally honest.

Thank you to those who have tried to answer genuinely.

Sutty I did not slate your breed. I asked questions, is that the same thing ?

Don't bother answering that actually. I'm getting bored of reading through waffle as no-one seems to know the answers to their own breed which I find extraordinary.

I'll google instead and be filled with wrong information.

If there is a Mod reading this, please can you close the thread as it seems my original questions won't be answered and people are now becoming defensive, tetchy and argumentative, so please close it, it's going round in circles.

I've met many already, and to be honest, those dogs are other peoples and do not educate me on the questions I was asking regarding health issues, hip scoring, KC etc.

So meeting more, will not do this either as no-one seems to have the answers.

Thank you.

Quote,
"I asked questions, because as a new member sometimes there is nothing worse than having to trawl through pages and pages and pages of waffle and members just chatting, for the odd posting of useful information you are looking for and I did have a quick look but couldn't find the answers to my questions, so the topic may be exhaustive to you, but is very new and fresh to some of us."

Malady, just to add when you started this thread you wanted questions answering and now you are saying that you want to "ask 'real' people with 'real' dogs and 'real' experience"


these are the people on this forum who just waffle and chat!! )0: because they love their dogs and want to share the good and fun with other members, people have answered in the best way that they can and know, cant we just leave it at that unless you are genuinley looking to buy one, then i guess you go the correct way in contacting the relative breeders/societies instead of expecting answers from us who "waffle and chat"!!

I've reopend this thread as people will naturally want to ask genuine questions (especially about a new breed). If we lock this one another one will surface next week. People will always want info no matter which breed it is.

As long as they don't break any rules (ie are polite etc) then they are within their rights to ask. Yes sometimes there will be questions that you may not want to hear, but that's part and parcel of the whole thing.

Nobody has to answer, but of course those who represent their breed may prefer to.

If you feel someone has broken the rules or is posting in an unacceptable manner please use the report post icon, DO NOT take it in your own hands to have a go at them, it's not your place to do so, and you may find you end up getting banned if you do.

Please keep the thread on-topic.

Thanks.

I still don't understand why anyone would strive to create a new "breed" when there is no purpose to them and when the KC have vowed they will never be recognised (which we *all* know is the case)...

These days you do not need to create a breed for a special purpose as we are living in a world that technology is taking over! People tends now to create breeds for a look, or achieve certain type of temperament??? ... the list can be endless!

It isn't our PLACE to do so ? What is our place then Azz?

I voiced an opinion on this thread about a post ..I also reported the post. I will assume that I am in danger then of being banned for expressing an opinion?

yes but with all the breeds there are now there is more than enough to suit anyone!

I wrote:

Having an opinion is fine, taking things into your own hands is not - that's why we have moderators, because they have a specific way of dealing with things. When people start 'having a go' at each other they do so based on what they think are the rules, and often they are wrong themselves or have over-reacted. Not saying that has happened in this thread - just the reason why it's best left to the mods.

If people think someone has broken a rule, report it - and if it has we will act on it. If you disagree with a mod action then leave feedback in the feedback section for admin to look at. Sometimes we miss things, we're only human!

If you read my quote again, you will see that if it was followed to begin with, you wouldn't have had to report a post in the first place

I asked for the thread to be closed by contacting a Mod, as I was the one who started it.

The reason being, I felt that although some had brought up very good questions, which are important to know regarding a breed, the same answers seemed to come back namely being :

Go ask the Society
Don't put down our breed
Come and see my/our dogs

These are NOT answers but passing the buck, being defensive and avoiding the issues raised.

It just seems that no-one actually has the answers to the original questions on this thread and what HAS been given has been very vague and skirting around the issue.

I didn't see the point in leaving open a thread which was causing arguments, as no-one was willing/or unable to answer the original questions anyway !!!

In that case leave it to rest.

There's no need to lock a thread just because the thread starter has had enough of it... other people may still be taking part in the discussion. Niether is there a need to lock it just because your questions were not answered, people are not obliged to answer.

The overall picture is what remains, and people reading the thread in the future can make their own minds up about the situation - you may find some will agree with you and some won't, but that's just life, and the thread is there for reference and possible further discussion.

well, obviously not as im sure at the time we speak maybe a new breed is created to suit someone's need!!!

It's like plastic surgery, how many people who has been through one plastic surgery admits that once you start doing one thing, it becomes addictive and even though you have reached what you wanted in the first place, you just can't help it but to keep having other surgeries for something else! ... once you start you can't stop!

It might be the same with breeds! You'll always have someone not satisfied with what's available and will create something to suit them!

Have you actually thought Malady, that just maybe some of us don't HAVE all the answers. Asking you to go to the Society ISN'T passing the buck. They're the one's probably more able to answer your questions.

I only have two utonagans (actually I'm not sure WHAT I have as one of Luna's brothers seems to be a wolfdog anf another a Tamaskan) but I will try and answer this from what I feel, hope you dont mind.

Maybe you could think both breeds as something people DID in fact have a need for. Siberians are more of my breed and they are lovely dogs but I wouldnt suggest just anyone to go and get a sibe. They are pack animals, require a great amount of excercise and the natural character of these dogs does not REALLY meet with the hopes of an ordinary pet lover. They are (and this is what I think of sibes should be wanted for) sled dogs. Working dogs with a huge potential to do their job. Not pets. Nor would I get a Malamute for a pet. They are ALSO working dogs and should not be required if they are not worked, i.e. used as a sled dog or weight pull. Making these breeds to be pets is just wrong. Which is more than I can say for the GSD. I have a show line GSD and I can honestly say he is neither a good pet (nervous, sharp and insecure) or a working dog (same reasons plus a very limited drive capacities). This breed had been ruined by the show people, trying to make a working dog into a pet/show dog. Only working line GSDs are what they should be. And I'm deliperately making this very black & white so please do not get upset.

Utonagans then. A very easy breed. A PET. Made to be a wolfy looking PET. Which is perfectly ok in the modern world and I would indeed rather see new breeds invented for just being a pet than the old one ruined for the purpose of people getting an easy dog. Mastiffs are not what they used to be. Some molossers are and I sincerely hope they will stay this way. To put it very, very simple: showing is not good for working dogs. Not all dog breeds make good show dogs and this should be accepted.

Also the CsV and Saarloos are fantastic animals but require a lot from the owner. They are not easy breeds. I wouldnt recommend either to a person wanting a PET. Why then is it more wrong to create a "similar" breed that is suitable for being a pet. As, again, I think neither of the FCI breeds should be bought as a pet as they were never intended to be "just" pets. The utonagan is an easy breed but still has an essence of the wild, like sibes & mals have but without too specific needs.

To me, utonagan & NI have a place. As pets. And nothing wrong with that, like I said, I rather see people buying these for pets that sibes & mals.

My Utes also run in my team and Luna is actually a very gifted sled dog. I will probably run her in small races (if her stomach stays ok) during next season.

From all you sibe & mal owners I would like to ask: why buy a sled dog and NOT use it as a sled dog? What is your reason for getting that dog? I.e. what do you use it if not for sledding?

I wouldnt breed anything under A or B in the scandinavian HS system. Let the breed be anything. This is more a question for the breeder than for the owner and depends on the morale of the breeder than the breed. You could ask the same question from anyone getting a large dog and with HS requirements.

I think this is because both breeds are still developing. Consistency in dog world? Hah. Look at sibes. VVVery consistent, eh? My point: not really a problem as people like different types.

Why would you pick bad traits as no sane person breeding dogs would? A dog is "made" for its original purpose. I love Cane Corsos but I wouldnt recommend the breed to anyone who does not have a long experience in handling molossers and knowing what they are getting. They were, have been and still are a very potential dogs with strong drive to guard and even to fight. Still some people are very suitable for having a Corso. As I wouldnt recommend sibe to anyone NOT wishing to get at least three and using them as sled dogs.

You are also forgetting one very important thing. Dogs are individuals and again we come to the morale of the breeder. One uses what one sees fit for use? Dog is a dog is a dog.

Why would anyone get a sibe knowing they are what they are? Because they, in fact, are suitable for some (insane) people. And also, making an obvious conclusion that a breed "made" from three others should only possess the bad traits af all, is a bit foolish. This is not how genetics work neither is it how dog breeding works.

Why would anyone who has done any hereditary research (I havent, I'm only still a student. All you researchers in evolutionary genetis raise your hands!) get A dog? Or any domesticated animal for that matter? Why would anyone choose to have kids if they have -5 vision in both eyes? Some things are indeed worth taking a risk. Not everything has to be so black&white. There are risks yes, but so there are in all breeds. Even in mals.

To me this is an easier choice as we use the FCI categories. I would place them in FCI5.

I am very much for careful breeding and I understand why you ask these questions. But still, they are made in a very narrow-minded view of trying the breeds look like they do not have purpose. Most of the things we do have no actual purpose. No-one really need a dog anyway. I dont use my sibes to get to work, I drive my van. You dont need you mals for pulling your killed seals from the ocean shores. Even hunting dogs are not a necessary thing any more. Only drug sniffing dogs and helper dogs are necessary. And even those are more of a modern time necessity that a REAL necessity. No one really has the right to say what is necessary and what is not.

That's about all I had in my mind wbout this at the moment .

Mine are worked in harness (Malamutes) and also do agility and obedience .... even if they weren't worked in harness they would still be happy pets as tehy are kept active I don't necessarily believe that working breeds HAVE to do the job that they were designed for but DO NEED somewhere to channel their energey and braincells!

Cos we don't have any snow!!!!

Thats a silly statement anyway!!

Thats like saying.. you have a fighting dog why don't you use it for fighting.. you have a rescue dog, why don't you use it for rescue, you have sheepdog why don't you use it on your sheep!!!!!!!!!!!

And im sure that most Mal and Sibe owners that have enough dogs for a team, do infact work their dogs in harness...

As an owner of 'alternative breeds'
(Cant really comment on NI's or Ute's, because I have never owned them)

My own breed has been met with much debate, which has been done to the death on other boards. I understand that people are curious (Myself included at one time when looking into my 'alternative' breed).
People curious about my breed of course have mixed views and feelings, we cant all think and feel passionate about the same things as that would be boring. I don't ask people to accept my dogs as the thing is they are already here, and here to stay!
I dont profess to be an expert on my breed (But having knowledge helps) I can certainly understand why people feel 'cagey' when their dogs are being thrust into the spotlight again - anyone would who cared enough about their dogs.

At the end of the day - you might not like these dogs, thats your perogative, no asks you too. But they are someones much loved pet, regardless of how they came into existence, how they were created, etc, etc
Relevent breed societies can be found easily enough on the net - I searched and found them. The information is there, details of people whom you can contact etc, etc surely this would be the right approach rather than arguing about the dogs on a public forum, surely?