not putting my 'four pennorth in' by any means, but i have a friend who had a pup from these lines, in fact im sure she is a member on here and hasnt seen this thread, i am trying to get in touch to see if this dog was closely related to her puppy. she had to make the heart breaking decision to have her girl pts at the age of 8 months old because, in her vets words, she had no hips and was in constant pain, on trying to get some help from the breeder, she was ignored from the beginning, no after sales care what so ever, so make of that what you will.
Ok, this isn't getting us anywhere. The only person to blame here is the person who advertised this dog for stud. Tawneywolf only stated what she knew about the dog and owners in question. Unless I've read these posts wrong, I'm sure TW posted that this dog isn't registered with the society and is castrated. I'm not sure if the castration happened before or after the ad was placed. Yes, it's shocking seeing a dog advertised for stud having these hip scores but, how many dogs do we see being advertised for stud with equally high scores?
i wonder what this dogs hip scores were at 1 year old, he is 7 now, im not getting at anybody, just pointing out that it is the new puppy buyer who will suffer in the end
Whatever the breeding of this dog, it's important that the information goes into the archives of the breed for future reference. As this does seem to be a problem in the breed, it would be useful if a predicted score could possibly be alloted to her x-ray plates if they are still available, for the purpose of statistical analysis.
Not wholly correct Wolfie. The reason I joined this thread was because of the comment - This now clearly misleading and possibly not in the best interest of the breed IMHO.
the thing is that these things have happened, we know they have happened, the Society has taken steps to make sure these things don't happen again. It would be lovely to be able to go back and undo whats happened, unfortunately it isn't possible. As far as I know the dog in question was neutered when the hip score was discovered, what happened before then I don't know. I don't think the Society was even formed then, so we couldn't have controlled what went on. One of the reasons we have the Society is to make sure we can regulate things. It takes time. We have a few hundred dogs, some of whom have bad hips, we are breeding it out by refusing to register any new litters where the parents either a) haven't been hip scored or b) the parents have a poor hip score. We can't do any more than that I am afraid. I am just a normal dog owner, I don't have all the answers, I don't think anyone does. If they do have the answers, please get in touch with me ASAP!!!!
My advice would be to find a geneticist who would be willing to help. If you have a broad enough gene base, you should be able to make steps towards reducing the problem without risking other, possibly serious, problems increasing.
yes but what worried me was you affirming that the problem with this particular dog was not hereditary - a bit of research proves it is. so either you were deliberately misleading people, or you simply didn't know... in either case, it hardly inspires trust. :-? xx
Trust in who? TW has stated she is merely a dog owner, same as many of us and isn't responsible. Perhaps it would be better if questions were directed at the Ute Society or the person who was/is selling the dog.
I may well address the Ute society myself - I would be interested to hear their viewpoint. However, in several posts Tawnwolf does come accross like she is an authority on the breed. which is why i was addressing her. xx
well I have obviously made it my business to know about the breed I own!!!! But I am a lay person, I love my dogs, I loved the dog I had before, which was one of the prototypes of the breed, and that is why I got more when she passed away. I like the Sulin line, I went to see all her dogs and I loved them, I am sure many breeds have problems in their lines, the idea is to keep the good bits going and discard the bad bits. It doesn't happen overnight. I am not able to discuss the whys and wherefores of what happened, I can only say what I have been told, I am not on the Committee, I just have 2 utes that are Sulin lines that are a joy to own (in between them eating my house of course)....
OK... I have NEVER hipscored any of my dogs...BUT if I was asked by their breeders so they could get a broader idea of the hipscores in the litter then I would do it for them... In a young breed such as the Ute's surely this would be a better way to find out the average hipscores.. add it into a puppy contract.. so that if they are sold as pet only not breeding stock you can still get an idea of the broader spectrum.. I am concerned about the GSD being blamed for passing this through as well.. In which case.. why choose to use the GSD when it has known bad hips.. Surely it would have been wiser to only use the best scoring GSD's to create this breed?? therefore reducing the chances of it coming through.. In this case it clearly IS genetic as it has been passed on to those poor puppies.. I would also say that IF the dogs are to be used as breeding stock then the hip score should be found out BEFORE any matings take place...
well that is what is happening now. When you register a Ute pup it clearly says it is not to bred from or placed on the register until hip and eye scores have been provided.
thats right tawney. so long as the society sticks together they can overcome this problem...whatevers happened in the past is finished, they need to concentrate on the breeds future now to make sure its as bright as possible. on a person note, hit tawney! *waves* nice to see you and lovely to meet you/your girls recently (and tawney last year) they are all a credit to you!!
Hiya How's Uni going? On the subject of HD, I wasn't putting the blame solely on one breed, I was merely commenting that it is still extremely prevelant in gsd's and yet dogs with this are still bred from, there is nothing in KC rules to prevent this. If you are not going to breed from your dogs then there is no need to have them hip and eye scored. However as a Society we need to know as many scores as possible so in my opinion it is best to get as many as possible scored and then we can publish correct figures. I presume anyone breeding Alaskan Malamutes would be having them checked for any particular fault that is common in that breed as well.
I haven't had my dog hip-scored. I have no intention of ever trying to breed from him as he has seizures but I won't have him hip-scored because it involves a GA; then you have all the risks of that. Agree with the last paragraph - think they are doing that now?
Can I just ask what tests need to be done before they can be bred from??? I am assuming they will need all the tests that the individual breeds would need..
I have NO intention of breeding from any of mine either, in fact my oldest dog is now neutered (after 7 years) and the bitch is spayed (thru rescue).. the only entire one is the pup BUT he is on a neuter contract.. so I would have the opportunity to have him hipscored when he was under the GA for that.. which is the point I am making.. If the pups are sold as PET only.. they should have a neuter contract.. so if they get the scores from these neutered/spayed pets aswell then it gives a better idea of the average hipscores.. If however only the best scores are given to the BVA then it does not represent a true score of the breed..
they have to be hip and eye scored, mine are 1 in November and will be having them done then to see what their's is, and will let you all know.
