What should a standard Blue staffies look like? Discussions

Surprised that someone who feels able to offer such all embracing comments and condemnation should need to ask me what conformation means, how can you pass such judgements without having studied canine conformation and construction.

Hayley, the Kennel Club has nothing to do with the formulation of, or the adjustment of, breed standards. That is left to breeders, breed clubs and ultimatley the breed councils. These people on the breed councils are breed experts, elected to speak and make decisions on behalf of the breed as a whole.

So the Kennel Club is not guilty of this particular charge as laid down by you.

Dawn R.

Hayley,
We have been through all this before,Like i said the Kc is important in my eyes,Yes a pedigree is a pedigree,without the KC you can't trace the dogs history,i have seen dogs sold with pedigrees without papers and the pedigree is rubbish,dogs are put down as bitches and vice versa,lets just agree to disagree,you have your preferrences i have mine.
Alot of damage is done to cetain breeds by back street breeders who have no thought for the breed at all,it's just about lining there pockets.

u mistake me pita

Im asking YOU what your idea of conformation and construction, i know what my ideas are

lets not try and be clever and answer my question please thank you

fair enough nissain

still can and never will agree that if the dogs are not kc reg then they are backyard breeders

firstly do you know how many byb their are in the kennel club show world (too many just as there are far ot many byb outside of the kc show world, BUT not all are)

To me byb is show people who up the price of the puppies, because they have a CC or BIB!! or because they have kennel club papers
BYB to me consist of the above, people who dont breed to preserve the orignal way a dog looked, who dont care for health, traits and people who breed dogs and bitch who are to young, have health problems and temperment problems!

thats my short answer of a byb, if i sat down and wrote what I THINK consists of a byb be much longer

Not being clever, conformation is conformation one does not have ideas about it; it's just a word the meaning of which is self-explanatory.

Never thought you would sit on the fence pita normally u say it, but i think because you cannot not explain what it means then i guess you dont know what it means, or am i wrong? or for better words try and explain it

Sorry Hayey, not rising to your game, if it pleases you to think I do not know what I am talking about that’s fine by me.

Ok,so with no pedigree,registration,How do you know how old a bitch is,whether or not it was too young to have had a litter?
How do you know how many litters have been bred?etc
Answer you don't,and regarding BYB,why are there so many RARE coloured staffords been advertised,that don't resemble the breed at all and asking inflated prices,simply because of colour-No thanks,I'll stick to my KC BYB who knows the breed,that health tests,that researches pedigrees and bloodlines and asks alot less for there pups even though there dog/bitch may have a CC or a BIS!

The original question posted was What should a standard blue stafford look like.

And it has turned into Non KC against KC stafford.
Just a point last time I look Ed Reid is no longer accepting registrations from Irish Staffords. Type

You seem to completely misunderstand the definition of back yard breeder as it is understood by the dog world in general around the world.

To clear it up for you, from :

http://www.animaladvocates.com/dog-breeding/definitions.php

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Backyard breeders - a definition

A backyard breeder is a person who:

* 1. Breeds only one dog at a time;
* 2. May breed their dog just once, but for the purpose of making little money;
* 3. May repeat breed the same dog;
* 4. May dispose of one dog and obtain another (more lucrative) to breed;
* 5. Often keeps the dog and pups in a yard, garage, shed, basement, closet, or pen;
* 6. May sell puppies as young as four weeks, with no vaccinations, and for as little as $50, although some backyard breeders sell pups of more desirable breeds for several hundred dollars each.
* 7. Often breeds the pups that end up being killed in pounds when they are abandoned as unwanted adults: cross breeds of German Shepherds, Rottweilers, Dobermans, Huskies, Pit Bulls, and other large breed dogs.

A backyard breeder does not include the family or person that breeds the family dog once and keeps the pups in the house with them, making sure the pups are well-socialized and healthy, does not give away or sell the pups until they are 10-12 weeks old, and carefully screens prospective adoptors, making several homes visits and refusing a pup to unsuitable people.

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From

http://www.bestfriendspetcare.com/dog_glossary/dog-terms-B.cfm

Backyard breeder: A person who casually breeds purebred dogs with little or no regard to the breed standard, genetically linked defects or temperament.

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From : http://www.canismajor.com/dog/cocker.html

Backyard breeders of Cockers frequently know little or nothing about the breed and are ill-equipped to even know whether Cookie or Buffy is a good specimen of the breed, let alone properly select a mate for her. They produce puppies to put a few extra dollars in their pockets, to give the kids the thrill of seeing puppies born, or to produce another dog "just like Mandy." Better that they should find another way of making money, show the kids some pictures of birth, and buy a puppy from a responsible breeder.

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From :http://www.ozpets.com.au/dogs/articles/DD10022.shtml

Why a Registered Breeder?
Registered breeders must abide by a "Code of Ethics" from the State Canine Association they are affiliated with. Backyard breeders, whilst they may breed a pure breed Saint Bernard, cannot offer you the pedigree of the puppy’s parents.

A registered breeder can give you the Main Register Papers for the puppy. Main Register and Limited Register papers can only come from the State Canine Association, the breeder is registered with.

Also registered breeders, do such things as x-ray their dogs hips and elbows for Hip
Dysplasia and other joint diseases. Some breeders even offer a health guarantee on the puppy’s they breed. A registered breeder will provide a diet sheet for your puppy and will offer advice and guidance on how to raise your new Saint Bernard.

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Hayley, I out-do even you regarding distaste toward the KC generally, [ believe me, I really do...], however, its not the name KC which is important in the context of the thread.
Its the registry side from the Breed Councils which matters, and the codes of conduct registered breeders must abide by, and is what prospective buyers of any puppy should take note of as it gives them a chance at least of buying a pup whose parents were thoroughly health checked and approved first as free of known genetic abnormalities including HD, deafness, [ or being a carrier likley to produce deaf puppies ], same with CEA / PRA etc etc.

Hate the name `KC` as much as you want - I certainly do - but you need to realise that what you do, or do not, like to see in your prefered breeds conformation etc matters not one jot to any badly bred puppy, or one used for fighting or other aggressive tendencies, most often coming from the sort of *actual* byb`s you seem to applaud, [ as opposed to those you mistakenly think come under the accepted world wide definitions of what byb means ].

The Kennel club have a code of ethics Hayley, they don't set the standards, the breed clubs do.

Please read up and then some on the History of some of those large Molossers you have quoted, some of the larger molossers were bred for dog fighting so I am not one bit surprised that they can't do what they are bred for - dog fighting is banned.

Why would anyone want one of these breeds if they still had the desire to rip another dog to pieces, why would anyone in their right mind still want their much loved dog to fight ? Why would anyone want to own the aggressive gladiator the Bulldog once was? It's not sad Hayley, times have changed and you should get yourself out of living in the dark ages, forget about what the dogs were bred for and move on - of course it's an important part of their history, but thats just it, History nothing more nothing less. It's sad that you expect some of those breeds to still perform what they were bred for - when it was banned so long ago.

A standard blue stafford sould look like any other stafford - only its blue in colour (with some variance in type depending on how it's bred), yes the nose will be a slate/blue colour and that is a fault according to the KC standard. Simple enough?

"The Staffordshire Bull Terrier Breed Standard
( Reproduced by kind permission of The Kennel Club)

General Appearance: Smooth-coated, well balanced, of great strength for his size. Muscular, active and agile.

Characteristics: Traditionally of indomitable courage and tenacity. Highly intelligent and affectionate, especially with children.

Temperament: Bold, fearless and totally reliable

Head and Skull: Short, deep through with broad skull. Very pronounced cheek muscles, distinct stop, short fore face, nose black.

Eyes: Dark preferred but may bear some relation to coat colour. Round, of medium size, and set to look straight ahead. Eye rims dark.

Ears: Rose or half pricked, not large or heavy. Full, drop or pricked ears highly undesirable.

Mouth: Lips tight and clean. Jaws strong, teeth large, with a perfect, regular and complete scissor bite, i.e. upper teeth closely overlapping lower teeth and set square to the jaws.

Neck: Muscular, rather short, clean in outline gradually widening towards shoulders.

Forequarters: Legs straight and well boned, set rather wide apart, showing no weakness at the pasterns, from which point feet turn out a little. Shoulders well laid back with no looseness at elbow.

Body: Close - coupled, with level topline, wide front, deep brisket, well sprung ribs, muscular and well defined.

Hindquarters: Well muscled, hocks well let down with stifles well bent. Legs parallel when viewed from behind.

Feet: Well padded, strong and of medium size. Nails black in solid coloured dogs.

Tail: Medium length, low set, tapering to a point and carried rather low. Should not curl much and may be likened to an old fashioned pump handle.

Gait / Movement: Free, powerful and agile with economy of effort. Legs moving parallel when viewed from front or rear. Discernible drive from hind legs.

Coat: Smooth, short and close.

Colour: Red, fawn, white, black or blue, or any of these colours with white. Any shade of brindle with white. Black and tan or liver colour highly undesirable.

Size: Desirable height at withers 35.5 - 40.5 cms (14 - 16 ins.), these heights being related to the weights.

Weight: dogs: 12.7 - 17 kgs (28 - 38 lbs); bitches 11- 15.4 kgs (24 - 34 lbs)

Faults: Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree and its effect upon the health and welfare of the dog.

Note: Male animals should have two apparently normal testicles full descended into the scrotum"


I cant believe all the crap in between at the end of the day everybody has their preferences and should not have to defend what they choose to own/breed as long as they are concerned with breeding/owning dogs sound in both body and mind and the health and welfare of the dogs is paramount thats all that really matters. Staffords come in all shapes and sizes and athletic doesnt mean over size or outwth the standard (or non KC) nor does KC mean short/stocky/unhealthy and Irish doesnt mean crossbred (there are many Irish dogs with absolutley no foreign blood) - now everybody has their own prefernces and shouldn't force those on others or have to defend their own choices! I'll leave with this quote...."sometimes its better to keep your mouth shut and people to think you stupid than to open your mouth and confirm it"

I have been told that the Irish Staff has some pit bull in their blood, i know the apbt originated from the Staffordshire bull terrier and then added some other breeds to get them bigger, stronger etc, i have read they are very close to the Apbt as to temperament, size etc is this true?

Hi, canary dog, I've got a blue irish staff, who is nearly 5 months old now. It is true that they have APBT blood in them but so do all staffs! The only difference is that the Irish staff's have longer legs so are bigger than "normal" staffs. Because they are bigger they can look like APBT but temperment wise, its all down to the dogs parents and how its brought up!

I do not care if dogs are pedigrees or not, it makes no difference we still love them!

Although I do have a warning for anyone who has got a so called irish/oldtime big boned Staff. supposidly registered with Intercontinental Kennel Club. most of these have been crossed with the American Pit Bull. I know this for a fact! There is no such breed as Irish staff/old time, it is code for American Pit Bull Cross. Most of them are bred for sheer strength.

Yes they may be great pets, but the are a killing machine if they choose/trained to be.

Please if anyone has one go to the american dog wesites and look at the pics. Your head will tell you to take heed! Dont let you heart tell you what to do.

I do not beleive these cross SBT/APB dogs should be destroyed, but the law clearly says you may keep a cross but it must be neutred, chipped, muzzled in public and insurance for third parties.

Please listen if you know you have one as a pet, by all means continue to love it, but be aware of what you have. I got off very lightly, after being conned into getting one. Make sure you are aware.

Take Care xx

can i just ad that no,they weren't 'real staffords' b4 the kc standard,they were the original crossing that was then perfected to get the disired look over years.
just because we av well breed kc staffords does not make us snobs.
if a stafford does not fall in2 the breed standard somewhere,mainly because it wasnt bred to,then it shouldnt be classed as a stafford,and without the relivant papers it isnt either.
i gree with sal 100% on this one,
people breeding outside the standard and calling them slightly a different name is just dam rite stupidity,these people are the reason there are so many badly breed dogs out there.
a stafford like ne breed has a set standard that was set out by real people,real breeders

Here is a website all about them with pics the lot http://www.bluestaffy.co.uk/

The original Irish Staff as far as I know did have some pitbull in it a long time ago. They where breed originally for fighting and heavy weight pulling. They are bigger, stronger and they have the record for being able to jump 7ft.

Doesn't matter what the temperament is like if it fits the physical description of a "pit bull type" even if it has not pit bull in it, it could be deemed illegal in the UK.

See page 9
http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welfare/domestic/ddogsleaflet.pdf