Do we know what we own? Discussions

With respect Azz I see perfectly clearly. What you wish is that I see through your eyes, never going to happen I'm afraid. I see what IS there not what I wish to be there.

What a stupid statement! I own a large bull breed and am well aware of the bull breed history, I even considered an Irish Staff at one point.

Anyone and everyone goes on the internet - there's no need to go and sit by someones knee like a puppy looking up to them in awe. Do you have low self-esteem Hayley? I'm sorry if that's a personal question but why do you seek the approval of 'hard' men/women? Respect yourself for who you are and find your own two feet through your own experiences and thoughts. Talk to others yes, but don't just take their word for it.

Most of us are able to listen to a wide variety of views and make our minds up rationally - I don't subscribe to any one school of thought, and anyone who does is not doing themselves any favours.

Who's saying they don't understand their dogs - I am well aware of what charcteristics my dog has. And yes he is a soft Fluffy cuddley dog but yes like most other bull breeds, he would reciprocate if a dog attacked him - but I wish it wasn't like that, because it's all the other bits about him I love.

Does that make you feel 'hard' or proud? Do you have low self esteem/respect?

You really have no idea. Agression does not equate to braveness or strength (why do you think they are different words to begin with )

Maybe a quick lesson in english might help:

Aggression - the practice of making assaults or attacks; offensive action in general.

Braveness - possessing or exhibiting courage or courageous endurance.

Strength - the quality or state of being strong; bodily or muscular power; vigor. 2. mental power, force, or vigor.

You see, all three are not the same, and losing aggression doesn't mean the others are lost too.

answer to question 1
Jas showed his spirit by giving a warning, people would like to see that go 100 percent and not even give a warning

answer to question 2
NO of course not

I would like to see the stafford be a stafford

WHY CAN YOU NOT GRASP THE FACT that i dont want to see dog fights i just want to see my stafford defend itself, because that is when it has lost its spirit

Hi azz
Firstly IF i have a low self esteem then im not gonna say on a public forum (learnt my lesson there) but i can tell you i have not
DO MY DOGS MAKE ME PROUD
YES
My staffords make me proud as they are the best animals on earth, loyal, loving, brave, funny, strong and clever dogs
Bessie is my soul mate ill never have a bond with any dog or many humans as i do with her!

AS A BREED do my dogs make me proud
YES because traits and personality wise they really are through and through staffords!
There is a room for improvement physically on bessie and borris and not sure how quinn will turn out

Jim is a close friend of mine and i listen to him with very much respect and im willing to learn, if i dont agree with something then i would say so to him! Jim is not a hard man and not nice to suggest he is! you will never meet a better dog owner or dogman or dog lover than him! his life is dogs and for many many years has been bull breeds as well as greyhounds, working terriers and lurchers!
I really dont know hardly anything about dogs, ive lived with dogs all my life, but from the age of 17 my intrest is the staffordshire bull terriers and also pitbull terriers but im just starting to learn more about the apbt!
The 4 and half years ive owned staffords (quinn being my 4th one) ive learnt who are the enemys of the breed and believe it or not it is not just the dda, anti bull breed owners, but mainly the show world, breeders trying to change physical and personalilty traits and owners who could not give a damn about thier breed! they are the real enemy
As if you had owners who understood, controlled and knew what they had on the end of thier lead then i dont think Bull breeds would be on the dda or indanger of it

Azz do you let rocky play off lead with other dogs?

Do I sense some human human aggression there Hayley? Maybe now we understand why you don't have so much of a problem with dog dog aggression :smt002

Sorry Hayley, I just couldn't resist :smt002

No disrespect meant to Jim here. However Hayley this is just plain stupid. Have you personally met every dog owning man and woman on this planet to be able to make such a ridiculous claim? Jim may well be the best dog lover in the world but you're certainly not qualified to make that judgement.

Really how can we take you seriously when you say such silly things? Please, at least think through your arguments before posting. :smt001

I note too, that you've only had staffords for 4 and a half years. I'm sorry, that hardly makes you an expert on the breed. There are a lot of people on this list with far more experience of the breed who you plainly have no interest in learning from to improve your relationship with your animals.

And for all this talk of aggression being a vital part of the breed. Hayley please show me a judge who looks for dog aggression when judging in the ring. Or are you saying that the KC breed standard doesn't make for a real stafford?

I worry for you and your dogs.

minihaha i take it the comment about going to shows to see real stafford is a joke or do you really think show staffords are the real staffords?

please dont ask me to tell you my views on show bred staffords as you wont like it sammymax, rather not own a stafford than own a bred to show standard stafford thanks

dont worry about me or my dogs because all are healthy and happy

That's where we differ. I can see through your eyes, your point of view. Just as I do when evaluating any situation - I try to put myself in other peoples shoes so I can get a better of idea how they think and why they think it. It's a shame you cannot do the same.

I never referred to any one person (who is Jim anyway). I was referring to people who label themselves with labels such as dogman and dogwoman - these words don't exist in the dictionary! They are labels people dreamnt up because they think it gives them more credibilty. Well I'm sorry but it does not, and if anything does the opposite.

Yes, he has been well socialised and has lots of friends he can play off lead with. However, I never let him off-lead in a new park or area where there are dogs he does not know. Which is a shame, and this is the bit I wish I could change because I'm sure he would absilutely love to go off lead and make new friends to play with - it's a shame you don't want the same happiness for your own dogs.

Thing is people will worry.

* I'm worried about your attitude towards this issue and no offence, but I think the breed would do well to not fall into peoples hands who think like you - you are going to get it put on the DDA by trying to reintroduce/retain dog aggression.

* We worried about the accidental matings.

* We worry about the pup you have which does not look like a staff - at 16 weeks old it is almost as tall as an adult staff in the 2nd pic you posted. I would guess this is a cross not a pedigree staff? Is there any pit blood in the pup?

Hi Hayley,
I know a man well into his eighties now,he has owned staffords since before the KC first registered them in 1935,He is a man that has a great knowlege of this breed and if i want any advice i will always ask him,he has taught me so much about this breed more than books could ever.I asked him about this issue aggression,gameness spirit etc,his reply was aggression is different to being game,alot of terrier breeds are game but it doesn't mean that they want to kill or fight anything on four legs.
There is nothing wrong with the show stafford,there is nothing wrong with the current standard for the breed.The only problem i have is with the idiots that don't consider the future of the breed,the ones similar to yourself that want dogs to display aggression,with this attitude our loving faithful friend is one step closer to been added to the DDA.
I'm sorry i don't agree with what you are saying and many other stafford owners wouldn't either,if you don't like the breed we have and the breed standard,why choose this breed?

I have just found something that perhaps Hayley and Housedog should read

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/staffordshirebullterrier.htm

Please note where it says

Is this wrong then?

I can’t deny that I’m angry and frustrated with you Hayley. My posts have made that quite clear. However something you said yesterday has been really bugging me and I’ve only just realised why. Although angry, I am genuinely concerned about you and hope you read the below in the spirit it is intended.

Now you know I’ve said that I lived with a dog dog aggressive Stafford for 12 years and I’m speaking from personal experience and from what I’ve learned from some of the UK’s top behaviourists and trainers (including those who own and love staffords). And I know you love and appreciate your dogs and are trying to do the best you know to look after them.

You said yesterday that you have full control of your dogs out and that you turn the other way when you see other dogs on street. What you are actually saying is that you believe your dogs are at risk of attacking other dogs in public. You are saying you have dangerous dogs under the law. Your dogs could justifiably be taken away from you and killed under the DDA.

You must learn to protect your dogs. I know you say you have full control of your dogs in public, but unless they are wearing muzzles in public you do not. This is the only way you can protect your dogs and ensure they do not cause harm if they attack and are taken away from you. If you introduce muzzles to them kindly and positively they will happily wear them (again I know from having to muzzle mine in public). One thing I’ve learnt over the years is that it does not matter who starts the fight, the Stafford will ALWAYS get the blame.

But you say you have full control. You may have full control granted and well done (really) for putting in the time and effort (most bull breed owners don’t). However, your dogs are dangerous and you must also consider and prepare for the possibility of accidents occurring. Most dog attacks are by well controlled animals who have gotten free from their owners. It only takes a drunken cyclist to knock you to the ground or a bee sting on the face or any number of freakish things to injure you first where you lose grip of the leads.

If a child with an annoying yappy dog happens to come around the corner at the same time and you are incapacitated then you have a real problem. At the very least the hysterical child could be injured as your dogs make a beeline for the other one. Of course it could be a lot worse. Don’t think for a second that your dogs will stop an attack because of a small screaming child who is tangled in a lead and fallen on all fours on the ground next to the dog they are attacking and lashing out at them in order to protect herself.

This isn’t a ridiculous scenario, accidents like this happen often enough. And you would be 100% completely responsible for any injury or death caused by your dogs. You would also go through the heartbreak and humiliation of having them killed under the DDA and being dragged through the courts. Your local papers would have a field day.

I genuinely hope that this never ever happens to you but I am worried it could. You need to get professional help for your dogs. We are now seeing “growl” classes where dog dog aggressive dogs can start to learn how to act around other dogs and there is a huge amount of help out there. You must protect your dogs from euthanasia and completely (as much as you can) remove any chance that they could kill or injure.

I know what Staffords are and what they are capable of. Do you?

Hayley the 'real' stafford IS much to your dislike, the closest to the KC standard.

I haven't seen much of your dogs, but what I have seen from your pup, is he a 'real' stafford, or just your interpretation of what a stafford should be?

And I agree with Azz here, no self respecting GOOD AND RESPONSIBLE breeder of staffies, or lover of the breed, would call themselves a 'dogman' or 'dogwoman'. By using these terms Hayley it just illustrates where you are coming from with your information.

A lot of Bulldog breeders cringe at what changes the show world has brought to the breed, and are actively trying to rectify this for the good of the breed, and future of the bulldog. They are not, however, aiming to create the previous viscious creature it once was.

I do agree on the point of what showing has done to some of our breeds, I believe there was a thread started recently on this topic?

This is why my chosen breed is not one that is badly affected, my own personal choice as I enjoy showing my dogs.

Ive just read a rather intresting quote, maybe you would all like to read, the quote is from a book called "The Book Of The Dog" published in 1948

Intresting not?

Thanks Nicci that is interesting