Do we know what we own? Discussions

First off Housedog could run rings of experience around most people on this board when it comes to bull breeds and he IMO is the man i respect highly when it comes to dogs as he really says it how it is and should be! its clear to see many of you dont know jim as comments made about him is untrue and stupid, and for the ones who did make stupid, idle and foolish comments about him and his regards to dogs dont deserve to know such a true dogman

We need to clear this up now

I believe if you breed out dog agression from staffordshire bull terriers then you taking away apart of the dogs spirit

A stafford without spirit is like an angel without wings? i wonder if many of you have heard of this famous saying?

First off i dont want any dogs attacking any other animal, BUT on the same hand if a dog tries to attack mine and my stafford backs down, to me its lost its spirit! staffords can walk by without snarling at another dog, but if the other dogs maybe growl or bare its teeth i would expect a stafford to at least show its A STAFFORD

If you cannot deal with certain traits of your breed and cannot control it and not understand then you shouldnt be able to own that breed

if u dont love every trait about a certain breed and you want to change then IMO your scum, the only time id say something should be bred out with be human agression as IMO that breed should not excist! or at least kept away from the public!

THE DDA came to place by stupid PETA, RSPCA, DOGS TODAY MAGAZINE and people owners pitbulls and bull breeds who dont fully understand what they own!

If you cant handle heat then go and step into another kitchen where the tempreture is correct for you, dont bother playing with the knobs just walk away!

Its really rather sad how many people want to change the stafford, pitbull etc because they cant control thier dogs but because you are all to lazy and dont care enough for the breed you would rather see this wonderful canine god be a something its not

If you as a stafford owner really thinks your stafford is 100 percent bomb proof with other dogs and animals then i feel sad for you but more so for the stafford as one day you may see another side to your stafford

at least if you expect it and control and understand it, then you prevent fights from happing
instead of being lazy by breeding out

what a bad dirty big bunch of crap humans beings we really are, too lazy to control what lies beneath your dogs skin and whats in its veins and heart, instead you will change everythng about it to suit you god damn selfish needs

Please point out where I mirror the views of the media.

You can't, because I don't.

Being a dog lover, I can easily recognise traits and characteristics in a breed that may need changing or eradicating. But that doesn't mean the breed as a whole is condemned. I (and by the sound of it unlike you) would prefer to help a breed by removing undesirable traits which are not only dangerous but will surely lead to the breed's extinction (by being put on the DDA). I can't see why any responsible dog owner would stick their head in the sand and ignore that it (the want to retain aggressive traits) is a problem, or worse, acknowledge the problem but attempt to justify there is a reason/excuse/validity for it not to be rectified, for their own messed up reasons.

I repeat that in this day and age there is no need for dog-to-dog aggression. And there never was in my opinion. Period. It won't change what a dog is like with his family or any of the other things that Staffy owners up and down the country love their Staffs for.

For the sake of the argument, if you could have your dogs exactly as they are BUT without dog-to-dog aggression (ie nothing else changed) would you want that?

If your answer is no then I am very very disappointed, and I would think anyone who actually cares about the breed or are involved with it in an official capacity on any level would do well to disassociate themselves from people who hold such views.

For the record, Dogsey is all for the eradication of dog aggressiveness in any breed. It's not needed, it's not right and anyone who thinks otherwise, needs to wake up.

But is Bruno the way he is because he is a Staffie or just because any dog with the start that he had could have the similar issues?

myschievous hunny you can understand where im coming from and clear to me you are a true dog lover
seems to me you are 100 percent passionate, loyal and adore your breed! good on you as there really is not many people out there who would fight to preserve thier breed!

All im trying to point it is we are striping everything from the stafford that makes it a stafford

Understandably its orignal job has been take away
its physical apparence has been taking away (but there is a few people breeding to the orignal standards thank god)
and now the want to take part of its spirit away because they are to lazy to understand what thier dog really is about

the only romantic ideals is people who think that they can breed out what lies deeply in thier heart and to be honest many of those have never owned a bull breed and only saying this as they have no idea what the real bull and terriers breed are about

Hayley what do you think is stafford spirit?

Brundog are you for real do u really think there is no fighting instinct in the staffordshire bull terrier!!!!!!!!!!!!

you are the type of owner im talking about you really dont think that a stafford has dog agression issues through instincts???????????????????

You are very much unlike his previous owners who truely didnt understand what they took on! yes you love him and look after him well but a stafford owner who refuses to believe that he was born without dog agression issues is a very mislead uneducated staffordshire bull terrier owner

I don't think any dog is born with aggression.Breeders do breed to the standard set out by the KC.
Have you actually researched the history of the breed,it's making me wonder.

Hayley-if you had a stafford bitch who was of a sound temperament, no dog agression issues and so forth-and then a suitable stud lined up, that was of a big pedigree, looked good etc but had dog agression-would you breed from these dogs? Hypothetically speaking, no insults intended, just would like your thoughts

NO NOT HUMAN AGRESSION
but a staffordshire bull terrier has dog agression within its make up, so therefor is born with it
Staffords where bred for fighting other dogs please dont pretend otherwise

With all due respect, I, and I suspect most staffie owners, believe otherwise. Removing the dog aggression will not take away the staffie's spirit. It's terribly sad to me that you seem to be doing the breed a terrible disservice by reducing its character down to its aggression when the staffie is made up of so much more than that.

never thought about it luke but if i do think about i would give you an answer
would i like a stafford who was 100 percent bomb proof with other animals then not really as to me its lost its spirit and therefor i could not call it stafford
would i love the dog the same? of course but i would never say this is a true stafford as it is not

To me it's about what the origins of the breed were and accepting all traits that come with it and if you can't live with all traits of a breed then you should look to another breed.

I wish I could easily walk my dogs like I could if they were a lab or collie for instance and amuse them by throwing a tennis ball for them to chase 100 times over but I can't...My dogs have a high prey drive and they like to run I have to shape all walks that we go on to cater for this...I can't take them to a small park and play fetch with them and expect them not to run off around the whole park being boisterous because they get bored to easily...

I work my butt off trying to think of ways to keep them amused on walks...It is a real challenge to say the least. Sometimes when you are 'having one of those days' you do think to yourself that it takes the shine off dog ownership because it can seem difficult...But then I realise that I love them for what they are and if I wanted something different I should have got it.

They stem from northern breeds so share some of those characteristics the difference being that they will come back and they don't have the desire to run and forget about you, they like to run but still want to keep you in sight...Recall is still a big challenge but can be done. But still they are not the sort of dog happy to plod by your heal and be content. I would love my dogs to enjoy a game of fetch and have recal be as easy as it is with some breeds but I have to accept that is what makes up my dogs...If they were good at fetch and things like that, they would be a different breed entirely.

Dog on dog aggression is understandibly not a trait anyone desires in this day an age, but if you choose to go for a breed that was originally bred for dog fighting you may well have to accept that dog aggression can be a factor and understand why. Why is it not acceptable to admit it is there and then shape how your dog lives it's life to make it a happy existence and if you can't, look to a different breed?

sammy max is this your first stafford, could u discribe what the spirit is of the stafford?
do u think your stafford is 100 percent bomb proof with other dogs?

Hayley i asked you what you thought was stafford spirit from what i can work out in your eyes it's purely aggression:-(

That he may do but it dont make anyone the authority on their chosen breed

We (I would like to think all have mentor's in our chosen breeds, I cetainly have mine) just because you have yours don't mean to say we have to agree with every written word they say.

Rubbish

Heard it yes, dont mean to say I agree with Jack Barnards words.

If my dogs backed down, I would see that as a true sign that they had been given the proper training they needed.

Nice! Sorry but the only scum are people who want the aggressive tendancies of a breed to stay.

What exactly was the point of this thread then?

I think thats the other way round, dont you?

WRONG, the only selfish human beings I can see are those that wish to preserve traits that are seriously dangerous and detremental to a breed in spate of recent dog attacks.

spot on mys at least someone else understands other than jim and moobli

This has just sparked me to get on my soapbox-again!
Sal you are totally right-no breed of dog is born with the ability to fullfill the desired job that their owners may wish to train them to do.
A terrier isn't born knowing to kill everything in sight, knowing to go to ground and bolt foxes (once upona time) etc. They are born with a seed planted within them, a seed that is the blood of generations of terriers who have worked god damn hard and often to the death. However, just because they have this 'seed' doesn't mean that from a pup they are going to know what to do with vermin-the seed may be planted but it has to be nurtured in order for a dog to be trained in something such as terrier work-and it takes a lot of hard work to train a dog to be able to work such a job, same goes for working pastoral dogs, working gundogs, working guarding breeds etc.
What im trying to say amist my rambling is-no breed of dog knows how to do the desired purpose from young, they are taught how to.
Now im NOT saying any decent person would teach a stafford how to go around attacking other dogs-what i'm trying to say is, the stafford has the "seed" that resides within him from centuries of fighting dog's blood flowing through his veins, however they won't automatically self-nurture this 'seed'. They either have this seed 'dispelled and disagreed with', when they are reared to totally not put the 'seed' into action, and that dog agression-any agression, is utterly unacceptable! Then they may have the 'seed' nurtured by dispicable, disgusting people who will be quite proud to have a viscious, dog agressive dog-just to say they have something thats 'big n hard', or there is a third option, a much worse'a option-when the fact these dogs have the 'seed', the potential that (like ANY dog!) be dog agressive if not trained, reared, socialised etc correctly is totally dismissed as it is seen as acceptable as a stafford was a once fighting dog.
Ok i've rambled-probably make little sense-but i hope you get the jist, again i refer to: Nurture, Not Nature!

Ok i think i've remained pretty cool n grounded until now-but now, its gone too far i am afriad.
What on earth are you going on about?!?!?!?! Your seriouslly saying that you wouldn't want your dog to be totally unphased by other animals, and to be a well mannered, well trained, well brought up dog-just because you want it to have a 'dog agressive/animal agressive' personality cause you believe its stafford spirit?!!??!1
WHAT THE HELL!!!! If this is true-then this is a view of a person who is no better than these fools who are destroying the breed-parading them around like a weapon/status symbol! And you know what? I don't care two toots whether this causes offence to anyone!

......Anyone?

the stafford spirit to me and what i expect from my staffords nissian

IS

Brave, Loyal, Loving, Strong, and when challenged does not back down!

The insticts to fight another dog is only apart of the stafford, but you needs those parts to make a whole, so without them all you dont have a whole stafford IMO