Lurcher Discussions

spot thank you and your dog is lovely

The point was that you believe a Lurcher is only a Lurcher if working. The examples I asked you to consider were on the same lines, whether of not you believe the dogs listed were not really of their breeds if they did`nt work either. Theres nothing confusing or difficult about it Hayley.

He was still a Longdog, Hayley, Sighthound x Sighthound is a Longdog not a Lurcher. If it makes you feel any better Longdogs are considered to be `supreme athletes` [ see further down ]. .

I remember seeing pics of Mungo Bean a while back, he looked like a very special lad indeed, such a gentle face and noble gentlemanly look about him :smt001

Thats the misconception which is based purely on the days when Greys were the most commonly available dog to use, thats all. As time went on and more breeds became available, they were used to create Lurchers as well because of having the required traits.
If you look at the info I have posted, the sources are those who do know what they are talking about.

In case you skipped past it, this is from a survey done among working Lurcher owners, [ not including pet only dogs and accidental matings of even more breed crosses as well as the non-sighthounds mentioned, the survey was specifically to do with dogs used regularly to kill things aimed at fighting a hunting ban ], coordinated by the ASSOCIATION OF LURCHER CLUBS :

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http://www.huntinginquiry.gov.uk/evi...cherclubs1.htm

The Lurcher

2.1 The lurcher is not a ‘breed’ of dog, as defined by the kennel club, but a ‘type’ of dog. Sheardown explains that the lurcher is originally produced by cross breeding two different breeds; "The lurcher is an intentional cross between a long dog and a herding dog, or the offspring of parents so bred". Historically, the two breeds used were the greyhound and a herding dog, such as the border collie. This was because these were the breeds which were most readily available as breeding stock.

2.2 The origins of the modern lurcher may vary widely of cross matings between working breeds; collies, German shepherds, Australian heelers, bull terriers and Bedlington terriers; and a selection of sight hounds; greyhounds, whippets, salukis, deerhounds, and even the exotic borzoi or pharaoh hound have been advertised as the sire or dam in the ‘pups for sale’ columns in magazines such as The Countryman’s Weekly.

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In the same article via the url given - and remember Hayley these are the people who should know all there is to know about what defines a Lurcher and a Long dog....

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2.3 Some illustration of the wide variety of lurcher ‘types’, is provided by the National Lurcher & Racing Club’s leaflet: ‘The Lurcher & The Long dog’, (Appendix I). The leaflet also provides a useful overview of both the lurcher’s origins and it’s modern day role. It also offers a clear definition of the difference between a lurcher and a long dog. Briefly, whilst a lurcher is originally produced by cross mating two very different breeds of dog, ie; collie x greyhound, with the aim of retaining the speed of the latter and the stamina and tractability of the former . A long dog is originally produced from a cross mating between two pure bred sight hounds, ie; a greyhound x saluki.

2.4 The need for two distinct ‘types’, as recognised by the definitions of ‘lurcher’ and ‘long dog’, has evolved with the popularity of specialist hunters. The lurcher is most commonly used for catching rabbits and all round vermin control, whilst the long dog is highly regarded by as a supreme athlete by lurcher coursing enthusiasts.

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If they happily acknowledge, accept, and approve of sighthounds other than only Greys being involved, and they are the ones breeding and working them, [ and them noting requirements for pet home temperament for non-workers as well as workers ], then surely everyone else can accept the facts of what defines a Lurcher and a Long dog ? ;-)

So he can do both the jobs they were originally bred for [ if not the right way around ], so he`s more of a `real` Lurcher than the rest in that regard :smt044

Whatever jobs he does [ or does`nt ;-) ] do, he`s a very handsome Lurcher indeed

I believe a Lurcher and Longdog patch are what they are be them working or not, BUT YOU SEE THE REAL LURCHER in thier spirit when working or running (does not have to be hunting, mine didnt hunt but the dog loved to chase and you could see the dog come to life)
thanks for the kind comments on my boy, he was the best with humans and worst with animals!

Ok, just to throw a spanner in the works, cos you've all confused me (lovely looking dogs though, to everyone who posted piccies!) Mungo Bean reminds me of a rescue Lurcher we had at the kennels )

Ok...why, if you cross a sighthound with anything else, do you get a 'Lurcher'.
But if you cross say... (random dogs here....) A Bullmastiff with a Labrador (or any other breeds), do you get a Mongrel?!

It's a bit like those designer dogs

Does`nt the sand in your ears and eyes get scratchy after a while ?

Well, only if looked at by people who can`t recognise a Lurcher when being stared in the face by one. Just because you can`t after your 18 years `experience` doesn`t mean that others who regularly deal with rescue Lurchers can`t spot them a mile off, they can and do all the time.

That you are not very Lurcher savvy ?
Yes indeedy, crystal clear.

Yes, probably the original `designer` dog type in that regard though unlike most modern designer dogs which are just to line pockets of breeders from the gullible, there were specific reasons regarding the developement of Lurchers.
Their initial developement as a type and the attributed origin of the name given to the particular crosses involved are outlined pretty well here :

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lurcher

Generally, the aim of the cross is to produce a sighthound with more intelligence, a canny animal suitable for the original purpose of the lurcher, poaching. Developed in the Middle Ages in Great Britain and Ireland, the lurcher was created because only nobility were allowed to have purebred sighthounds like Irish Wolfhounds, Scottish Deerhounds, Greyhounds, and Whippets, whereas crosses, or curs, had no such perceived value. Similarly, nobility owned most land and commoners were not allowed to hunt game on crown land or other noble estates.


It was important that the lurcher did not resemble too closely a sighthound, as the penalties for owning a sighthound were high, particularly given that if you owned one then by default you were considered a poacher. The original lurchers therefore were generally heavier-coated dogs who could herd sheep as well as bring home a rabbit or hare for the pot.

Roma, more commonly known as Romany Gypsies, were instrumental in developing the lurcher type, and the word 'lurcher' is believed to derive from a Romani word 'lur' meaning thief.

The lurcher has as many varied uses as types can be crossbred, but generally they are used as hunting dogs that can chase and kill their prey. Most lurchers today are used for general pest control, typically rabbits, hares, and foxes. They have also been successfully used on deer. The only truly sporting use of the lurcher is in hare coursing, although most hare coursing dogs are Greyhounds. Lurchers move most effectively over open ground, although different crosses suit different terrains. Lure coursing and dog racing are also popular in areas with little available hunting, or for people who dislike hunting. The modern Lurcher is growing from its old image of disrepute to heights of popularity as an exceptional family dog, and many groups have been founded to rehome lurchers as family pets.

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:smt044 :smt044 :smt044 :smt044

Okay, so a sighthound X sighthound is a longdog, and a sighthound X anything else is a lurcher.

That makes sense with what I've been able to find elsewhere online also. The original answer confused me because I know several people personally who have lurchers with no greyhound parentage at all.

As for whether or not they are bred purposefully or accidentally, all I have to say if all of these lurchers in rescue are truly from purposeful breeders then these breeders aren';t very ethical. There are a heckovofalotof Lurchers in rescue! I love them. My friend has a saluki X collie much like yours patch, and he is to live for.

I also know a longdog that is deerhound X Afghan so the theory that there are no accidentally bred longdogs or lurchers just doesn't hold water with me. Sorry.

Dawn, whilst again you have your opinion, in most lurcher circles Skye would be classed as a lurcher, Im surprised when you say you’ve worked along side people for years and who are breeding that they would not know a lurcher are these the same people who didn’t know what a longdog was as I have found that the older more traditional lurcher people always use the correct terminology whereas the younger less experienced, and IMO less desirable elements tend to just use lurcher as a generic term for any breeding.

Again we will have to disagree on what is well thought out breeding practises – breeding a litter of 12 and killing the majority is not my idea of responsible or having dogs best interests at heart.

I also wonder where you friends are acquiring their greyhounds and how they are proving them?

I don’t know which is your local lurcher rescue but Im surprised they are saying the majority of lurchers are travellers dogs or did that come from you’re time in rescue, things change Im afraid and the situation is possibly different now to when you were involved. There was also a large increase in lurcher numbers being picked up when the coursing ban came in and many were ‘got rid’ again not really in the best interest of the dogs. Unfortunately even lurchers that can be traced back to the breeder end up in rescue and they certainly dont take them back.

Can I ask were you involved in lad rescue or sighthound rescue?

Again no offence intended just a few more thoughts on the debate.

Hi Spot.
It wasnt a local "Lurcher" rescue its an all breed rescue.

If you can trace owners that wont take responsibility, can you not "name and shame" them, most genuine working dog folk would welcome that, put into public view those that dont take correct care, just a suggestion.

I cant agree with you about the "correct" terminology re: Longdogs etc.. I know people that coursed dogs (pre ban) who have done it way way longer than I have been alive, I mean coursing Saluki/Greyhound crosses etc they called them Lurchers or sometimes their "running dog" In fact I cant recall any "Longdogs" as such being spoken of for ages, its just the term Lurcher used. A good friend who has a rescue Deerhound/Greyhound calls him a Lurcher too, he was called this in the rescue he came from but his heritage was known. I guess its just a term that covers the whole, specific crosses will be noted, but the term "Lurcher" seems to cover them all for the most part.

Again, agree to disagree with "Skye" whilst he "technically" may be a Lurcher, in my eyes he is not a workable type, and as I said before, I doubt anyone would say "Oh look at that Lurcher" if they were not told of his breeding beforehand, my opinion only.
Dawn.

Added.
I did labrador rescue for 7yrs, the rescue that I was speaking of about lurchers, was a local all breed rescue, sorry Spot just reread the post.

I think dawn has a point about workable type, where as greyhound, deerhounds, saluki, irish wolf hounds are very workable hunting dogs, but if you cross just anything to a sighthound/running dog etc, say adding 3 different breeds, how would that make them a better worker? I really like the Bull Lurcher and i do know these make good working dogs, I also know the beddlington terrier to be a common cross to a greyhound or cross them to a lurcher also is a good working mix! Just think that adding many many breeds to a lurcher would not maybe be as good as cross a greyhound with a collie, or a stafford etc?

Hi heather, i think there is alot of difference between a Lurcher and a cookapoo or these stupid designer breeds, Lurchers have been around many many years and tend to be very healthy, my mungo was huge and he lived till he was nearly 14, you dont really hear about big dogs living long!

I think we need to agree to disagree, I, like Hayley see a Lurcher as a working "type" of dog designed for a specific job, everybody has their own jobs in mind when breeding Lurchers for work, me, I would go for a Saluki/Greyhound type and still call it a Lurcher (rightly or wrongly ) others have other preferences relating to their choice of work.
Dawn.

It was a joke!
Hence the winky smiley!

I was trying to make light of an argument thats going round in circles!

oh sorry heather, lol!

Lot's of circles on this thread and for the last 20+ years I've listened (over and over) to the comments as per posted on this thread about what is and isn't a Lurcher.

I throw Skye into the mix because I know he IS without doubt (by definition) a lurcher. That is a fact.

However, I don't really view him as a lurcher for the very reasons that have been pointed out throughout this thread.

I just want to comment that if I saw 'Skye' in the street I would probably assume he is a Lurcher. The pictures don't show him standing up where you can see his body very well but in one of the pictures I can definately see that he has a very tucked up abdomen and the outline of ribs is visible. It's unlikely you could breed a deerhound (is it?) with something else and not get something which looks like a lurcher.

He's a bit heavier now but he used to be 'pinched' a little round the abdomen.

He's gorgeous, whatever he is!