Field trialling General Chat

Does anybody on here do field trials as I’m looking to start my dog in either beating or field trials, but I need someone to point me in the right direction as to which he would be better suited to him. He has ftch in English and Irish bloodlines, He has a keen nose as you would expect from a spaniel and loves going into hedges brambles and the likes, but his damn recall is atrocious and no matter how much I try, if he’s mindset on not bringing back then he won’t. I’ve looked on the kennel club site but that’s as novice trials. I was looking for a club or trainer to help with recall and bits. He does all the go back and left and right hand signals, wait until told to get on and doesn’t give up until he’s found what he should. I’ve long lined him a few times when he doesn’t do as he’s told which is fine when he’s on the long line then he does what he’s told because he knows he can’t get any further, but do a recall off and when he’s in the wrong mindset he looks at me like nah not today mrs !!!! Oh and I’ve tried 2 trainers and they keep saying persevere. He’s 2 now and still stubborn. Don’t know what else I can do to make him listen.
Any help would be good help, oh and treats don’t work as he’s not interested in them.

Said culprit, like butter wouldn’t melt

Cooling himself off today

The trainers are right - perseverence will pay off usually.

In regards to rewards, treat motivated dogs are easy. When treats don't work, you have to figure out what does.

My Tornado-dog is motivated by fun. As long as what I want him to do is more fun than what he wants to do, he responds with glee. As soon as it is not fun, he's outta there. I had a friend try to teach him some agility while she sat with him. She didn't make it fun. He crawled under the couch and sulked. Having had shepherds, my other dogs have usually been motivated by praise. That's another easy one. Tornado-dog challenged me to think differently.

For the recall, you have to make coming to you better than whatever he is doing - every single time. Find his motivator. I used playing ball for Tornado-dog as that is his second favorite thing (the hose is number one, but isn't effective) to do. Every time I called him to me, we played ball for a moment. Now I can get him to come to me any time (except when he's playing with the hose).

I don't know spaniels well enough to suggest that motivator, but you can visit some trails and talk to other owner/handlers on what they use. Just take the positive motivators and ignore the ones recommending punishment, corrections, etc.

And change your thinking. He's not being stubborn - you just haven't found his motivation. Once you do, he will respond to you quickly.

As for which he would be better at, again, I'd go to some trials and talk to folks. Ask them about their dogs and why they chose what they did.

Hi Tone, I think you are in the UK.
Look on the KC site for the list of Field Trial or Working Spaniel Clubs and look at their pages online. Pick the one that seems to suit you best - maybe one for your breed type, or just the one that's nearest to you. The secretary will be able to give you first hand help in how to get started. I wouldn't start off with a Trial, learn the ropes and the rules first.

His motivation is his ball and will usually if I hold the palm of my hand facing down will on return sit and place the ball in my hand until I throw it for him, but when he’s in his mood he tends to throw the ball at me rather than doing the latter but then runs halfway across the field like hurry up and throw it. So if I call him back he’s like Aahh no just throw the ball. His heel work is walking backwards if he knows I have a ball in my pocket, on or off lead as it really doesn’t matter to him because he wants that. He can do a whole lap without even looking back once. He does eventually turn around if I tell him to walk on. But I can usually see the devilment in his face then I know he’s not going to do what he’s told.

Hi Carole,
Yes I’m in the UK in the East Midlands. I did have a Quick Look on there but I think I should have a better look and scour the pages to try and find one somewhere near to me, but getting there on a regular basis as in attending them is going to be a little tricky as I work shifts and they tend to be mid day and late ones as I have no set pattern for them. So any group or weekly training is going to be a struggle. I just know he needs something to challenge him rather than just walking/ running about.

I taught Tornado-dog that if he wants the ball thrown when we're outside, he has to put it "in the basket". That started off as an actual basket, but over time it has become anything similar like an empty flowerpot, box or cart. The main thing is that if he wants to play "throw the ball for me", it goes in the basket.

Otside of that, I let him make up his own rules for games. He like to vary what he does and I go along with it. The above rule is only because I got tired of the soggy disgusting ball getting dropped in my lap, on the furniture, etc. It goes in the basket. If it's a tennis ball type, I throw it with a chuckit thrower. With his volleyball, I have a glove I put on to touch it.

I've also never chased him to get something away from him, so he doesn't know that's a game. The closest he gets is "try and get it" where he puts the item right next to me and when I go to pick it up, he grabs it back. He says that's great fun.

If you can't go to, or don't want to commit to, trials, weekly training, etc, you can just do it on your own. In that case, it doesn't matter how you do it, just as long as he's getting out and doing something. I know some dogs who never liked the "rules" of various dog sports - they just wanted to have fun with it their way. I say, why not? And you can get creative and combine what he enjoys from various sports and ignore what he doesn't.

If the goal is to make him happy, then listen to him and let him have fun with it - even if it doesn't get you awards.

He does love his hide and go seek game, where I throw his ball in the bushes undergrowth or long grass and he has to wait until I give the command of get on and find it, it doesn’t take him long as I don’t throw it that far, but I always know when he’s found it as his tail wags like a helicopter propeller that’s about to take off he’s not really interested in anything bigger than a tennis ball even if the kids are kicking the football round. He just looks at them and doesn’t bother. My old springer used to work but not with me as he was trained for beating but he had problems so that’s how I ended up with him and he was as good as gold. But like you both say I’ll just keep persevering and fingers crossed eventually the penny will drop, either that or I will

Tornado-dog's volleyball has several tears in it so he can easily grab it and carry it around and thrash it to death.

He had a stuffed pheasant that he used to carry around with him all the time but it’s fell apart now and the stuffing has fell out of it bit by bit. It’s been dragged, ragged, left out in the rain and anything else he could do with it . But it’s his favourite toy

I have never done Field Trial work, but I have trained my dogs with friends who did. Even for beating he will need to have the essentials - steadiness to gunfire, and able to remain quiet and settled while waiting to work. He needs to have a reliable recall too. I don't think steadiness to gunfire is tested in Working Trials anymore, but it is essential for a shooter's dog. When I was competing in W. Trials I used a cap pistol to start getting Eddie used to bangs. (I use the same method to condition them to fireworks). He should be retrieving a canvas dummy - a Field Sports dealer will know what weight you need - and he might be a good source of info too. You can then begin to move him on to carrying game by fastening a couple of wings to the dummy - or a rabbit skin for a roughshooter's dog.
You really do need a trainer, or even a mate that shoots, to guide you with progressing the groundwork.

I know he’s fine over gunshot and doesn’t even flinch at thunder, the breeder I got him from did actually run a shoot and had dogs for beating, but they have now emigrated. my dad and brother both have rifle's, I was thinking of more to keep his mind active rather than going in to competition, I do know a few people that do actually field trial but they are either working or competing and to be perfectly honest one of them is not very well so I wouldn’t want to burden him. He’s not really a barker only when someone comes into the house, but that’s only because the Doxie has taught him to do that, he does pick up cold birds and has even held a live one in his mouth. He wasn’t to keen on rabbit fur but then he had never held one before so I think that was just a little new and strange to him. My brother was actually a beater at a local shoot but he had one of his friends train his dogs for him, but I’m unsure if the guy that trained his still does it as it was a few years ago.

I think this is why I would rather have someone that is more up to date on things in the field and point me in the right direction as to what he might be good at and maybe you never know he could be even good enough to have a go. Most of what he does like when I hand signal left or right and go back and his sit was already there which took me by surprise that he understood what I was doing / saying when he was finding his ball in the hedges. So my main problems have always been his sit and wait without his release lead and my hand infront of his face and his recall. Which I have been giving him two pips whistle and call him even when he is returning and a quick praise when he does.

I have found that happily calling to the dog as he is returning has much better results than just calling once firmly and waiting. Fortunately, that was never a mark against me when I was in the 4-H ring with my boxer. She hated being in the ring and my repeated calling always gained me the sympathy scoring as she very very very slowly came to me with her head hanging dejectedly...

I do know it’s very frustrating when he looks at me and doesn’t respond, I’ve cottened on now that if I sit down on the floor when he is being a mare he will happily run back and sit with me, which is fine while it’s dry and sunny but I’ll be damned if I’m doing that in the rain or the winter months .

With Tornado-dog, I just say "where's your ball?", he runs to get it and comes right to me to play. Not quite a direct recall, but I happy stopover recall.

Haha yeah that one works for me in the garden but not all the time when he’s out and about.

Sounds like he's got great natural instincts. Keep building on that!