Siberian Husky off lead walking??? Controversial

Patch dont ever think you shouldnt bother posting!

I think you put my opinion across perfectly!

Anne, when are you going to realise that ALL dogs, including Huskies, are dogs first and foremost.

They are NOT robots. Your belief is that once a dog has been 'trained' a reliable recall, that's it !!! Well I'm sorry, but they all have minds, desires, needs and instincts, and any one of these natural reactions could kick in at any given time.

Why can't you accept that you don't know everything ???

I honestly don't think I know everything. I was just trying to see it from yours and others on here, point of view.

actually, Im more inclined to think a working sled-dog is MORE reliable than one whos simply a pet. Trained harness dogs are worked to a far higher level of discipline than those who do not work in harness, we do after all teach them to go left, go right, go staight on, speed up, slow down, go past (another team or object, or my pet hate, loose dogs on the trail who take it upon themselves to leap in front of a fast moving team) move over, and stop. thats more commands than the average working sheepdog learns (and yes!, they can be trained to whistles too). working dogs are on the whole more contented than non-workers, and thats not just me spouting, thats my observation of how 'hyper' ours can be if they are not run in harness for a week or two. training a dog all those commands is no mean feat. We also have one girl here who does obedience and one whos being trained to a target stick with a view to doing heelwork to music. they also love, and are very good at agility. given their level of training, i have no doubt mine would come back on recall MOST of the time, but MOST is not good enough IMO and Im not prepared the risk the alternative.

You can count our 9 in Lyn (plus the Akita and the Shiba - also not suitable for off-lead in unenclosed spaces).
Malady wrote: "They are NOT robots. Your belief is that once a dog has been 'trained' a reliable recall, that's it !!! Well I'm sorry, but they all have minds, desires, needs and instincts, and any one of these natural reactions could kick in at any given time."
This is so true! Some years ago we sold a puppy to a lady who was heavily into Obedience and Agility. She trained this Sibe brilliantly and it competed at a high level in both disciplines. One day, when it was about 7 years old, a neighbour left our friend's garden gate open. In a split second the dog was through the gate and despite attempts to recall it, ran across the road and was killed instantly. This dog had never refused a recall before and had been off-lead constantly - but then, once was enough!

Mick

Lyn wrote: "actually, Im more inclined to think a working sled-dog is MORE reliable than one whos simply a pet."

I think you are right Lyn and I think the same goes for show-trained Sibes. They are used to obeying commands whereas most pet huskies won't be to the same extent. In a way, this makes this whole debate even more dismaying. In the main, people who take in huskies from a welfare organisation, tend to want pets, rather than working or show dogs, and as pet owners, they are much less likely to put in the time and effort necessary to train their dogs to recall than those of us who work and/or show our dogs.

Mick

Sorry but I don't agree with that :?

Nobody said you had to Anne - it's just my experience as a Siberian owner and welfare worker over 15 years.

Just to clarify another point (sorry, we've been out doing some homechecks so I'm catching up on the past few hour's posts) - Anne wrote: "It was very obvious considering the posts on some of the husky club forums"
There are only 2 Husky Club forums in the UK. The SHCGB Forum and the SSHC Forum. I am not a member of the SHCGB or its Forum, so I don't know whether the Mayhew and its policies have been discussed there. I am a member of the SSHC Forum however, and I am pretty sure it hasn't been discussed there.
It has been discussed on the DreamCatcher Forum in the past, but this is an independent Forum completely unaligned with and independent of any other organisation. It was discussed originally on the DC Forum,because someone had seen the off-lead requirement for Siberians on the Mayhew website and were absolutely appalled by it. As far as my recollection goes, no negative comments were aimed at any other aspects of the work of the Mayhew, simply at what members of the Forum believed to be a dangerously misguided and irresponsible policy.

Mick

Well there's a surprise. Anne you don't agree with anyone.

If you admit you don't know everything, why can't you then accept that on this argument, despite your beliefs, you may actually be wrong ????

Yes, sorry mick, should have included showing in that too. a ring trained husky is a very disciplined creature indeed. the only time ours dont pull on a lead is when theres a show chain on the end of it. they learn to stand patiently and give the judge, their best 'keen' expression at the right moment (I have a freind with two showdogs who have giving the judge 'the eye' down to a fine art). they are taught to gait gracefully around the ring, either loose leaded or 'strung' according to dog and preference. they have to stand patiently while the judge examines their sturcture and muscle, sometimes lifting their feet and in the case of males their crown jewels. the sibe ring at a show is often a disciplined sight to behold compared to some breeds i have stood ringside and watched.
BUT, they still need to be on that lead, as an example, my year old girl was startled to hell by the P.A system by the ring whilst doing her 'triangle', had she not been on-lead, i have no doubt she would have been back from blackpool a long time before we were.

Well said Mick, I totally agree.

I don't believe Rescue centres in general, no matter how experienced or long lived they are, should be giving breed specific advice, when it comes to the safety of a rehomed dog. I think to assume too much on the ability of a behaviourist is dangerous, given the breed traits of some dogs.

Because I see it day in and day out with my own Huskies and the ones we've rehomed, how they can be taught a reliable and trustworthy enough recall to be trusted off lead just like any other dog. I've spoken to countless other people who know the same. One thing that did get me thinking is we personally have not had in an exworking husky (not to our knowledge anyway) and therefore haven't trained a recall to an exworking Husky, so I had a moments thought that, that might be the difference.

I don't know why you think that would make any difference. In fact, a working Husky is more likely to have better recall, as they are trained very well to follow voice commands for directions and speed etc. It's not just a matter of jumping on a rig, saying tally ho, and off we go !!! They need commands, and are trained well to accept them.

Just because 'your' Huskies are 'perfect', doesn't mean they are typical of the breed. They are the exception.

"One thing that did get me thinking is we personally have not trained a recall to an exworking Husky (not to our knowledge anyway) so had a moments thought that, that might be the difference"

Again, I can only go by my own experience. Our most trustworthy off-lead dog is our French import Ute, who is also our most experienced working sled dog having been run regularly on snow over 30 mile trails before coming to us. Ute also understands and obeys sits, stays and downs (unlike most of our other sibes!!!

Mick

What every single one including the rescues, the ones I grew up with and the ones other people own, there must be nearly 100 I've met over the years, all happy and safe being exercised off lead.

Oh, so now you speak on behalf of everyone who owns a Husky.........................LOL

Get real !

No, I was talking about all of the ones I've owned, my family have owned, our friends have owned, our rescue has rehomed, ones(some)other rescues have rehomed and people I've known and people I've met with Huskies. Not every Husky owner! did you actually think I was implying that or were you just being rude?

And like I've said before I've also known huskies that can't safely be exercised off lead with out a longline, but they're in the minority, in-fact very few. Unfortunately what I have met a lot of is owners who keep there huskies on lead and provide no other type of exercise.

Sorry double posted