Siberian Husky off lead walking??? Controversial

Excellent post :smt023

Hi im not a husky owner (just a lover of the breed) im very interested to know exactly what i would need in terms of knowledge, time, dedication and training to train a Husky (or any other breed) to have 100% off lead recall in all circumstances.

Personally im not sure any dog can have 100% FAIL PROOF recall. Even the most highly trained working dogs (police, army, assistance dogs etc) occasionally stray from what they are supposed to be doing to follow an instinctual trait.

Anyway i look forward to hearing your 100% recall training methods and hope i can put them to good use on the 80-90% decent recall of my two dogs. Thanks!

I do :smt039
But then I train for that same as people do with hearing dogs ;-)
Plus my deaf dogs have a `working` hearing dog who turns them toward me on cue if I need to signal them between their frequent check-backs

Many do with better safety than hearing dogs off lead, simply because blind dogs tend to be not charging off anyway ;-)

My Willow is an exception, he is deaf, partially sighted, human fear aggressive and a tripod so no he does`nt get to run loose except in enclosed private areas. His exercise has to be limited because he gets lactic acid probs in his rear leg so his exercise is carefully monitorred and on a long line [ connected to harness ] so that he `feels` off lead and has enough line length to have a good blast.
I had his line custom made in three parts to allow different amounts of `freedom` based on terrain, his rear leg fitness at any given time, and space available. Its long enough at maximum to create the equivalent of a football pitch sized area and with me walking along at the end of it, to him, gives the impression of as much free running as my off lead dogs.
He never actually bothers to go as far as he could on the line, and I can reel him in easily when I spot anyone in the distance - I keep him on short lead when walking through narrow areas and don`t put him on long line until reaching a space where anyone appearing from any direction cant just pop out unexpectedly and closely.

Were it not for his [ understandable ] aggression issue, he would go off lead the same as my other deaf dogs, he would just be recalled sooner than them because of the lactic acid in his leg.

I need to get together with you some time Dawn to show you how deaf dog interaction for safe reliable off-lead time is easily achieved, its usually much more easily done than with hearing dogs ;-) ;-)

To keep within topic, I would think that the sort of method I use with Willow would be ideal for any dog which cant go off lead for some reason, including Sibes ?

** Long lines and retractables should never be attached direct to collar with any dog of any breed, they should always be used with a body harness.
Also, longline work needs practise, if anyone decides to try it, only let out as much line as you can handle at a time and gradually increase as you get proficient with each amount of distance given, you need to work on it until it becomes second nature to avoid tangles and how to use the line, [ gently ! ], as a recall cue

Completely agree with this. As stated previously people are far more inclinced to actually listen to what you have to say if you put your points across in an amicable adult manner.

For those of you making remarks about other peoples dogs, be warned - you know we don't tollerate such insults.

Yes, and in the pics (just had a look) it seems the dog is shedding and that is what a sibe looks like when it is shedding. One of mine actually looks worse, he's like a blown up fur coat at the moment...

Unfortunately Finland has near to insane legislation when it comes to owning pets so people are not allowed to let dogs off lead in town areas or when it is breeding season for birds and other animals. You can get fined doing so. So you see it is quite necessary to have a fenced area to run the dogs! Or go to the woods where no-one is around and if they are, nobody cares!

So, I have my whole garden fenced and I let mine run at least twice a day every day, training or no training. It is play time and they can do what they want, dig, play, run, eat a bone etc. Training is hard work and I expect the dogs to give me 100% but of course they need time off too and other things to do. At the moment the pack is on summer holiday, no training untill August.

There are many opinions on this but I prefer dog parks or other fenced areas to leash walking as recreation as I dont want the dogs to think they are allowed sniffing the ground or lifting their legs when I'm taking them out. I want a clear difference between work and play and this is an easy way to let the dogs know when it is time to do which. Also because of the legal side of it I dont like taking the dogs only to walks on lead as I could not let them run anyway. Most of them would stay off lead but I just dont see the point of taking a sled dog to walking! Socialization is of course another matter but then I take them to town etc which is a whole different surroundings compared to where we train.

This all does not include Morko (my GSD), Elsa & Luna (my Utes) whom I take to walks of course. They also enjoy playing with the huskies so all get a good run together.

I don't think anyone is saying dogs can be trained to have a 100% fail proof recall, what is being said is that Huskies can be trained to the same level as other breeds enabling them to be safely exercised off lead. If you look back Anne explains briefly the use of a 100 foot long line and how a husky should never come off this line until their recall is trustworthy and reliable.

I personally wouldn't feel happy giving much more in depth advice than what Anne has given in this post without knowing the individual dog and speaking in person with the owner. Longlines need to be used carefully and as someone has mentioned already should be attached to a harness rather than the dogs collar. What I would advise, is that anyone with a dog that hasn't got a reliable recall seeks advice from a behaviorist or experienced trainer to help them, to teach their dog a reliable recall.

Well my Huskies are pets first and foremost, We have had the breed for over 10 years and they make great family pets
Terry

"your average Husky owner doesn’t do sports or activities with their dogs" AnneUK

It's comments like this that are unfair and untrue (see my earlier post this morning regarding Husky rallies etc). This is why I'm so fed up with the way this thread is going, it's not a healthy debate, I won't be posting again on this thread. I think the phrase 'banging your head against a brick wall' springs to mind.
I'm really shocked at some of the stuff I've read on here in the last few days.

mozzy & Tuuli I think you're picking me up in completely the wrong way, sincere apologies if I have come across this way. Like I've said before it's great that there are owners out there that do sports with their huskies, these are not the sort of people my posts are aimed at, Sorry everyone if I've given that impression, my frustration is purely with people that only take their huskies for on-lead walks around the park without doing any other type of sports/exercise, the sort that I always seem to come across, unfortunately there is a lot of them out there :-( Please don't take my posts as aimed at you or any individual on here that does sports with their huskies or those that already walk their huskies off lead be it in an enclosed area.

Dawn you make me laugh ;-)

Sure, some can make a great pet (I have mine inside one or two at the time!). So can some very potential hunting and herding dogs. Even some breeds used to fighting make great pets. Still it kills me inside everytime this happens. They were and they are and they still should in the future BE sleddogs, hunting dogs and herding dogs. Everytime a breed is turned into a pet and above all, a SHOW breed, we loose a bit of our own history. Ours and the dogs' history!

Siberian is a working dog and it should be honoured as such.

Good, Im pleased!

Spot.
You have stated you have another dog with good hearing running with your deaf dog, many people may only have that dog so this would not be possible, furthermore many people wouldnt be as dedicated to training the hearing dog to turn the deaf one even if they did!

I did have a deaf Lab pup in when I did rescue. He was unruly and naughty and never listened, no he was deaf!! They never knew and when told didnt want him anyway! I collected that dog each week from work and did hand signals and obedience with him, however I would never ever of rehomed him with people whom I thought would run him loose. I did home him in Yorkshire with a couple who had Horses, they had an enclosed paddock behind their home where Stevie could run, but all other exercise was on lead.

Yes, fine, absolutely :smt001 I have had my fair share of "disabled" animals, a deaf Cat for 15yrs, a blind dog for 12yrs, a Dobermann with Wobblers, this Papillon here now is deaf, I had a blind Jack Russell too, she was 15 when she died and she also still worked when she was blind!! scent tracking only mind.

That aside, there are specific types of dogs who are NOT suitable for off lead running and it IMO would be extremely irresponsible to risk an injury to that dog by running it on a lead then it stopping dead at the end of it, and it has happened. Breeds like Sibes, Afghans and some others are not dogs to have loose and if I owned one I would never ever risk their safety for a quick gallop in the park, never.
Dawn.

Umm no not me I dont have a deaf dog (although they do do a good impression of it sometimes)!

I must just add, when my deaf crew do agility, its off lead and without their hearing dog ;-)

Whether people have a deaf dog or a dog who can hear, or a deaf dog without another dog to work with them, its all in the training and bonding ;-)

Not even with someone who does know what they are doing and knows to work within a dogs abilities as to whether they can be safe off lead or not as the case may be individually ? ;-)

If you mean longline, I absolutely agree that it must be done safely - its something which has to be practised carefully, not just a line attached and away they go.
The dog needs to get used to it as gradually as the handler. When initally working with mine on a longline, they learn that when the line `lifts` behind them, they about to reach as far as it will go, [ whether after five feet, ten feet, or however many feet ], and by working on it gradually [ for length of line given ], they learn to stop by themselves rather than the line itself stopping them, and I do reinforce maximum distance as being before the actual full line length is reached, [ hence Willow does`nt bother going as far as he physically could for instance ], either by voice or whistle for a hearing dog, or flicking the line along the ground so that the part nearest the dog `lifts` and can be [ gently ] felt through the harness [ hence using it as an attention getter for recall `cue` ], so that they don`t end up being suddenly stopped in their tracks by literally hitting the end of the longline.

Like I said, it takes practise and needs to be done in stages. When done properly it does give as near a free running experience as possible for the enjoyment and fitness of a dog which can`t go completely off lead for some reason or another or doesn`t have a suitable activity provided for its breed [ ie Sibes which imo should be given the opportunity to run in harness to a rig or sled etc ], to allow the dog to exercise fully :smt001

Sorry Spot I meant Patch, its all these spots and patches before mye eyes!

What ever you are taking to get that effect, have one for me please :smt005

Must be the pain killers, they have stopped the Diazapam!

:smt043 :smt043 :smt005 :smt026

Wys
x

Hi

I've just joined - what an interesting discussion

Lisa asks about what they "used" to do with Siberians off-season. I think she's getting here at the Chukchi nomads who apparently yes, used to turn their dogs loose. Two important things here, however . Firstly, these were not strictly the Siberian Huskies we know today. These were the ancestors of our Siberians - a breed specifically developed for racing in harness. Secondly, the nomads turned the dogs loose so they didn't have to feed them. The dogs would have been left to hunt and scavenge. This is definitely a trait that has carried over to the modern day Siberian Husky. Unfortunately, hunting and scavenging in our world leads to poisoning, the killing of small furry pets and the farmer's shotgun. Why would anyone want to risk this? The Chukchi's did not have roads to worry about and heck, I'm sure quite a few of their dogs didn't return from their travels...

My Siberians have access to an enclosed area where they can run free if they want. Do they? Do they heck. They'll tear around for a couple of minutes then spend the rest of the time checking out the perimeter for a way out or looking for something to kill.

They all get obediance training. I do try to teach recall in case any of them get loose accidently. I have one who will go into a downstay in the house while you leave the room and make a cup of tea. She got loose once. Did the recall work? Sure but after about 20 minutes during which time she ran backwards and forwards across a main road, got kicked by a man walking a Yorkie and nearly ran into a combine harvester... Whatever sense of freedom she felt (although these are dogs, remember, and there's a lot of anthropmorphising going on in this discussion) was surely not worth the huge risk to this little life. She was charmed that day.

People simply do not understand the nature of this breed of dog. I get asked all the time, "but if your dogs love you, why would they run away?" They are not running away, they are simply running. The dog does not understand why you're not up there running with them. The dog does not understand much and certain nothing about the dangers of this modern world which is far removed from the wastes of Siberia, the open spaces of Alaska... It's up to you as the person in whose trust that dog places its entire existance to be sensible.

x

Please explain then? why the huskies we rehome don't just keep running, why they are like any other breed when trained to go off lead; they run around, sniff in scrubs/bushes, play with other dogs, walk by their owners side, chase squirrels, chase a tennis ball, roll around in the grass, jump in ponds etc etc

Frustrated Huskies that don't go for regular off lead walks are at a great risk of escaping and if/when they do escape are unlikely to come back when called, wanting to run and enjoy their new found freedom.