Rant warning: "Designer breeds" Discussions

@GsdSlave Exactly!

IMO Health testing does go a long way towards indicating who is an ethical breeder, whether they breed a pedigree breed, or the latest Doodle variety. A full set of health tests, with BVA certificates, does not come cheap, and I think warrants a premium price. The problem is that the breeder of crossbreeds does not normally test for any of the conditions that either parent of the litter could carry, but expects to get the same price as the person that puts their all into breeding the best they can.
An ethical breeder will also try to keep their inbreeding coefficient below the breed average figure, whereas the non ethical BYB would have trouble interpreting the quality of a pedigree. Many of this type seem to have no qualms about producing puppies from indiscriminate, and even unregistered stock, as their only motivation is money.
Caveat emptor - Let the buyer beware.

What she said !!

no such thing as an ethical breeder..............what rubbish !!

The reason someone might get smashed for breeding from a xbreed , is because said dog will have no history of its genetics or health, said dog might be healthy or grow into old age without to many problems, but that does not make ideal to breed from.

An ethical breeder will have knowledge of the history behind the dogs , the history will be recorded and documented , you cant have that with a x breed that comes from a rescue centre or a BYB ...

You are breeding blind with fingers crossed when you breed from unknown stock

Lol - as I knew. A lot of static from pure bred dog owners. Never said there was no such thing as an ethical breeder, so rubbish does fit that statement. Also never said mixed breed dogs are healthier. I simply implied that a dog that is built more like wild dogs are probably and usually healthier than mush faced breeds, breeds with crazy amounts of hair, etc. Same as how dogs FED like wild dogs are liable to be healthier. Natural is usually best. Brownie easily outlives almost all of them with no joint problems and had almost no health problems until the very end, and that will often apply regardless of what anybody is trying to implicate. But keeps your breeds that can't see etc and stay on your pedestal. It isn't doing a thing for the health of dogs as a whole. I'd bet everything I own that a "health tested" genetic atrocity of a breed such as the Bulldog, Shar Pei etc, doesn't come close to such health. Breed normal healthy looking dogs and most will probably be healthy.

PS - Knowing the history of a dog doesn't mean much when the breed ITSELF is unhealthy. So funny how you mop face dog owners with dogs that need their facial hair put in a rubber band or wrinkly skinned dogs that need their skin folds surgically removed from their faces in order to see try to clown on people who merely said that such traits don't improve the health of dogs regardless of health testing.

Do you know if Brownie's siblings and parents remained healthy into old age too? Breeding healthy dogs is about far more than just the dog in front of you and that's why knowing your dogs lines and health history also goes along way into breeding healthy puppies.

Not my point at all. Totally irrevant actually. People are just skipping everything that I was talking about. Figures. Done here.

Myra, I can't answer for the features of breeds I have't owned, but one of the complaints that you say we are skipping is, 'mop face' dogs which have their facial hair in rubber bands. (Incidentally, you have also said you might like a Labradoodle - wouldn't you say some of them were mop faced?). You would probably really dislike my last breed, Lowchen, which are extremely hairy, and, even worse, are shown clipped into a lion trim. The breed is ancient, but the modern population stem from a handful of dogs that a French lady, Mme. Bennert, managed to maintain throughout the Nazi occupation in WW2. Lowchen therefore have rather a high inbreeding coefficient, but nevertheless, have managed to remain an extremely healthy toy breed.
Between shows, some people do put their dog's facial hair into a pony tail, and some use a conditioner and make a parting like an Edwardian gentleman, but this has no effect on the dog's ability to see out, and can hardly be called a health problem. My last Lowchen was 17 when I had to have him pts with dementia, he was still bodily fit, and had a full set of strong white teeth, in fact I don't ever remember him visiting a vet, apart from his eye certs and vaccinations.

Myra if what I'm understanding is correct, what you're trying to say is that dogs that look "wolf-like" in their shape are healthier than ones that don't conform to that norm,

What about a healthy breed like a Tibetan Spaniel, an ancient breed who's looks and genetic make up haven't altered in centuries. They look nothing like your "stereotype" so where do you reckon they fit in?

Correction to #27
Mme. Bennert was Belgian, not French.

I will never own another dog and ideally I wanted a Rhodesian Ridgeback (which you should have seen me say previously here, too) but like I said, I've become allergic to dogs and am constantly on nasal spray etc so wouldn't pick a shedding dog. Anyway, again, whether the dog is appealing to the eye is again, irrelevant. I think Chihuahua dogs are ugly but I've met many, many old ones that seemed in good shape. So yeah, appearance not part of point because we all like different things in that regard.

Also, Barbara, I said in general this seems to be the case. I've never heard of that breed by the way. Don't know a shred about it. Did a quick search and found no registered breeders of that breed in the entire country. There are exceptions to rules and I understand that. My main point was that you take a normal weight, normal sized, normally built dog that moves well and whatnot with no health tests and he will probably outlive a bulldog with all the health tests in the world. I've seen it happen time and time again, and my only point is that I stand behind healthy dogs, not mere health testing. Literally all that stuff about what breeds look good and whatever wasn't part of my point.

And Barbara, don't you think your dog has had a lot of issues for a dog you said you paid a lot for from a reputable breeder? You think its fine to breed such dogs because you health test? If so, why? I'm asking a legitimate question, though of course you don't have to answer.

Google, Tibetan Spaniel Club of America.

My Google search threw up a number of US breeders of Tibetan Spaniels on the first page alone.

Again, not important at all. Still don't know anything about the breed and I see she came back to "like" those posts but didn't answer the question. Oh, well.

After looking a bit harder I found two breeders, AKC registered. No puppies available. Didn't Google the club, see the breed has a lifespan of Chihuahuas on average. Don't see what you guys see at all. I didn't say they were all unhealthy, I spoke in general terms.

If that was her attempt at refuting me, picking one breed that doesn't seem common anyway and has longer lifespans as it's a tiny breed, I guess there's nothing for it.

[QUOTE="mjfromga, post: 204472, member: 2005
And Barbara, don't you think your dog has had a lot of issues for a dog you said you paid a lot for from a reputable breeder? You think its fine to breed such dogs because you health test? If so, why? I'm asking a legitimate question, though of course you don't have to answer.[/QUOTE]

I take it the "she" you're referring to is me? And, no "she" didn't answer your post instantly because "she" was in a hurry to get her dogs to training."She" does have far more interesting things to do other than waiting for a post from you!

To answer your question about ALL the health issues you appear to think my dog has suffered from. I'm assuming you're referring to Georgina, my Shar-Pei.

Georgina had entropion which is a genetic fault, but not one exclusive to Pei. Some 36 breeds are also known to be affected. Akita, SBT', Labradors, Great Pyrenee, Yorkshire Terrier,to name a few.

Little is known about the gene that causes entropion apart from the fact it's recessive and being a random gene can skip several generations, only to pop up again, rather like red hair in humans. (My son inherited his from his great-great uncle) Out of a litter of 6 Georgina was the only one who developed entropion. Neither her parents nor grandparents had a history of entropion and they were all champion show dogs,who under FCI rules would have been disqualified had they'd had eye surgery..

Georgina had a hematoma of the cornea after "spiking" her eye going under the hedge. She's also had a couple of pulled muscles due to her racing after her Schnauzer "brother" who's much faster and more agile than she is. More recently she'd been suffering from a UTI. NONE of the above are in any way related to her breed or genetic make up as you appear to think. Simply injuries/illnesses that are common to all dogs Georgina has NEVER suffered from any of the inherited diseases that are unique to Pei and fall under the collective heading of SPAID.

Contrary to what you may think according to my vet both my Pei and my Schnauzer's overall health is excellent as is their temperament.

In future I'd suggest you do yourself a favour and before you "spout off" about subjects you have zilch knowledge about, you first establish the facts and do some research! .

All that and you still didn't answer the question. Completely dodged it, rather and was salty and defensive in doing so. Whatever madam. Have a nice day. I won't waste anymore time on this thread or you.

I hope this answers your question.
People choose breeds that they like, breed characteristics play a big part ,we all look for different things in the breeds we choose, features, personalities, traits ect: or for a specific purpose, hunting ,herding ect:

I was raised with Gsd’s and have owned them for over 50 yrs because I love the breed and their versatility. They are everything I personally want from a dog.

Yes they have health problems, but are still the breed of my choice and money doesn’t come into it.

@GsdSlave I understand and it is true there are breed personalities suitable for some people and others not so much. The designer breed fad has gotten way out of hand in my opinion.