"We don't believe in vaccinations." Discussions

I saw the title statement in an ad for puppies for sale. It made me wonder what they do if one of their dogs contracts distemper, rabies, or Parvo. Very sad. The really sad part is puppies don't need vaccinations before going to new homes in Maine.

The law here is that dogs must have rabies shots every year, even though the rabies shots are supposed to last for three years. They are registered with the Ministry of Agriculture under the ID number of the owner and are classed as a dog licence. In the case of a possible rabies outbreak, all dogs, whether stray, running loose, or, like mine, possibly on her tether in the front yard, are picked up and checked. Tikva, like Little One and Pereg, is also microchipped, which is also registered under my ID number, which shows she has had her rabies shot. So I would just get advised to keep her in when the quarantine is in effect.

That has not happened so far with Tikki but happened more than a few times before with Little One and Pereg. It was probably only a safety thing but they were both fully vaccinated and microchipped so they were fine.

How many people bother? If there is even a possible rabies outbreak this, and other local Moshavim, are put under quarantine and every loose dog, dumped or even one "belonging" to someone here but was always let loose was picked up. And never seen again.

When Tikva needed her puppy shots, Michal, her now primary vet, came here as they had a case of Parvo at the surgery. And Tikki will only go to the surgery in an emergency now, although she did go there to be spayed. Michal comes here for shots or even claw clipping.

I know a lot of owners in England only have puppy jabs plus one booster the following year.
Other owners like me make sure their dogs have their yearly boosters.
Then there are some owners who's dogs only have boosters every 2 or 3 years.

There as been articles on web about how dangerous it is having yearly boosters, but at the same times articles about horror stories of dogs falling ill because they haven't had their boosters.

Oh plenty of horror stories. The Griffon puppies I bred in England did not go until they had had their three puppy shots, but of course they did not have to have rabies shots.

My girls here have yearly full shots and yearly rabies shots. And not one has had a problem with any of them, and I refuse to accept that Pereg's epilepsy was caused by any of her shots. It just happened.

If they get distemper or parvo, then you treat them. If rabies then they must be PTS. There is no cure. There are people who believe in natural rearing, it's just how they wish to raise their dogs. Their are humans like this too.

Rabies seems irrelevant anyway, since the new owner get that it doesn't matter what the breeder believes as far as vaccines are concerned. Even for their own dogs rabies is required by law, not like other vaccines so they likely don't have a way around it. If they don't give it and are caught they will have to give it. If they have ever boarded their dogs, are a licensed kennel, ect their dogs probably have rabies. Even if their dogs are registered with their town or county by requirement they'd need rabies.

Puppies tend to have their mothers immunity, now in this case unfortunately not. Typically they would though. By the time the pups leave they will have lost the maternal immunity. However, what has been said is that the pup does not have immunity from a single vaccine, which is usually all that has been given due to age. So if the breeders vaccinated before sending the new pups off they still wouldn't be protected. I do think it is in their best interest to be vaccinated, because at least that way it is started.

Really. I've never heard of such a thing, nor how it could be possible, certainly how it could at all be confirmed. It is proven fact that antibodies last 5-10yrs for most vaccines.

As most of you know, my beloved angel Pereg was severely epilepic. I was a member of the Epileptic List and the number of members who said that even puppy shots were the cause of their dogs to have epilepsy. Boosters? Do not even think about it.

As for the mandatory Rabies shot - oh no, do NOT have it done. Apply for the dog's blood to be titred - IF the county will accept it. But that actually does not prove anything

My girl had all her yearly regular shots, plus her yearly Rabies shot. Not one of them caused or affected her epilepsy.

What people do not understand is that it only takes ONE sick dog to pass it on to all other dogs it comes in contact with. My girl had idiopathic epilepsy. Nothing could be done and no, it was not passed on from another dog as it was idiopathic. From no known origin..

@Bulldogs4Life

{QUOTE]Really. I've never heard of such a thing, nor how it could be possible, certainly how it could at all be confirmed. It is proven fact that antibodies last 5-10yrs for most vaccines.[/QUOTE]

Do you have proof oi that? I would not risk it.

Just as I did not risk vaccinations for my children when they were babies. Up to you. but to risk your own babies and not risk my puppies?

I am deaf because we did not have the MMR Vaccination as children, so I had measles and I lost most of my hearing and an amount of my sight.. Even if we had had had proven that antibodies lasted for 5-10 years, it was not proven then and has not been proven now.

Believe what you want. Oh and you are maybe too young to remember polio. We were 15 years old before the polio vax was available to us.

Spend your money on useless canabis oil for epilepsy. It is your money, not mine. And much as I would love one more day with my epi girl, I knew that the canabils oil would not only not have helped her, but would had helped emptied my purse.

My vet's have been doing the 3 yearly booster plan for quite a few years now.
The World and BSAVA published their 2015 report on vaccination in January (2016), which also endorses the 3 yearly protocol*.
The latest thinking seems to be that it is possible that Parvo vaccination MAY confer immunity for life. The situation with Lepto boosters is more complicated, as we only have vaccines for a fraction of possible strains, and the booster immunity does not last for a full 12 months. According to my vet, the rat catching terrier men booster for this twice a year.

*Link to this document below. It is an academic report, and quite long.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jsap.2_12431/pdf

Hope this works - you all know how rubbish I am at links!

Yippeeeeee!

There is NO cure for Parvo.

I am sorry but I am not going to risk it. It has and still never has been never been proven to actuality works. It was originally used as an vaccination for cats who had cat flu.

The first Griffon litter I bred were a test case for the cat flu, in the hope of a dog Parvo vax.

Sorry but I am not prepared to risk that either.

I do not care what the boosters cost. My epi girl cost me far more for her 3-monthly blood examination tests alone, let alone her medication. Risk not giving her vaccinations that might offer offer her a few months? Just to save a few pennies a year? There is no way that I will worry about boosters, but that is just me.

Tikva will have whatever Michal thinks is right for her, and I will agree to what she suggests.

This is nothing to do with saving pennies.
What is concerning the vets are the dangers of over vaccination on the canine immune system. This report will have worldwide influence, and more and more vets will be moving onto the three year booster protocol.
Of course, as a paying client, anyone can insist that their animal still has annual boosters, but this is likely to become contrary to professional guidelines.
Parvo vaccine does work extremely well - that is why there is substantial evidence that it MAY last a lifetime. Individual animals will show some variation. It is, of course, possible to titre test to check the level of immunity.

OK, so we stop vaccinating our human babies against measles, and there is, again, as there is now, a measles epidemic. Not to forget whooping cough. And why are our daughters being vaccinated against cervical cancer if it is not necessary?

Of course it is all to do with saving pennies - the people who buy the cheapest dog food and will not spend any pennies to have their dogs vaccinated. Or spayed or neutered and let them run out loose.

"Oh well, we can always get another puppy".

Here? Why have a dog given a yearly rabies shot? Oh, it is the law is it? Sorry but I cannot be bothered.

..'I find that remark very insulting, Because I choose not to pump my dog full of unnecessary toxic substances doesn’t mean im ‘penny pinching. It is a personal decision that i made after learning as much as possible about the risks and benefits.
Having had a dog that suffered from vaccinosis.
Quote @ Malka My girl had all her yearly regular shots, plus her yearly Rabies shot. Not one of them caused or affected her epilepsy.) Can you prove this?)
During my research it was well documented that only healthy dogs should be inoculated.

Pereg had her first seizure when she was 2 years and 3 months old. She had already had her puppy shots and yearly rabies shots, and was 100% healthy at the time.

Now you tell ME that her epilepsy was caused by vaccination.

On second thoughts, tell her vet, who is also epileptic.

Oh, and tell me that you would not medicate your dog with "unnecessary toxic substances" if it developed epilepsy. Or, G-d forbid shove "unnecessary toxic substances" down it if you had a child with cancer which could have been avoided had you pumped your child with "unnecessary toxic substances"

I am not saying that my dogs are not vaccinated. They have their initial shots, followed by a booster a year later. This is then followed by three yearly boosters. Eddie was actually due a booster last year, but the vet advised against it as he has two serious autoimmune conditions. I have no reason to penny pinch. I have spent enough money on my lad for the cost of a booster not to make much difference.

K9 as to have annually booster as he's my system alert dog, so if I am going to vet with K9 I might as well take my other 5 plus my 3 cats

Most vets recommend the 3 yearly vaccination protocol, and to be honest I'd find it concerning to me at least if a vet was still recommending and pushing for yearly vaccination when it's been proven to not be needed.

I don't vaccinate mine beyond initial puppy vaccinations ( apart from restarting the vaccines for Ty & Missy back in 2010 due to the fact we was holidaying in a cottage that asked for up to date vaccination. But they never asked for proof after all.) After that Ty developed a huge tennis ball sized lump on his neck area that lasted well over two weeks, and he also very quickly developed a horrid ear infection with very red and itchy paws. Now, it's entirely possible it was just a coincidence it flared up around the time of the vaccinations, but I'm not convinced. He had never had any ailments or allergy like symptoms up until then and all in all it took a further year to get on top of these conditions. I strongly believe the symptoms died down once his immunity levels returned to a healthy level. Since then he's never had a repeat flare up. Make of that what you will. I did discuss it with the vet at the time who whilst never saying it was vaccine related, never ruled it out too.

Call it 'penny pinching' or whatever you want, but based on my observation of what happened with Ty I made the decision not to do any further vaccinations and from research on the subject and reading all the pros/cons I am certainly not alone. I also don't routinely treat for fleas/worm/vaccinate for KC.

But in response to the original question, I believe some breeders use homeopathic nosodes but I can't tell you whether they are effective or not and it could well be 'we don't believe in vaccinations' is being used as an excuse for a less than responsible breeder which is even more concerning of course because the pups are left without any protection. Personally I'd always want my puppies to receive the initial vaccination series at least.

Thank you for all your replies. It is in my best interest, in my opinion, where I already have a dog to have ANY dog we adopt be up to date on vaccines. Yes, our dog is up to date on his vaccines, but I don't want to take any chances. Thanks again.

Does this apply to Guide Dogs too? I believe that this is still the case for PAT Dogs. I wonder whether this advice will change.

In Hungary by law ALL puppies have be vaccinated for Rabies by the age of 16 weeks and yearly thereafter. Failure to do so can result in a heavy fine and the dog being placed in a government quarantine at the owner's expense.

Both my dogs have EU Pet Passports so need to have all their other vaccinations up to date if I want to travel to another country, which is quite likely as Hungary is a landlocked country and it only takes me 20 minutes to drive to Slovakia, less than an hour to drive to the Ukraine and just over 2 hours to drive to Krakow Poland!

No I would not vaccinate, as research advises against vaccinating dogs with epilepsy.
But I respect your choice to do so, as it is my choice not to have mine done every year.