To Crop or not to crop. That is the question. General Chat

I believe the original poster asked for opinions and so I gave mine

Yes, my girl is spayed. It took an awful amount of deliberation, but, having known too many dogs suffer (and more than one dying) through pyometra, I went, rightly or wrongly, down the prevention route. Nope, never met a cropped dog as the op is banned here. I've met too many to mention docked dogs and a few of those who suffered throughout their lives due to the docking being done badly.

Met quite a few police dogs. None docked of course because the preferred breed is GSD or Malinois.

Different countries, different cultures. Circumcision is not the norm here. I research all the time, it's a hobby now, but was part of my profession . I won't meet a cropped litter because they are illegal here and I don't travel these days.

I do think it ridiculous that for your dog to pass a test to be able to breed you have to chop off their tails. Doesn't sound right to me, but if that is the rule in your country then I suppose that is the rule. Seems a daft one to me mind

If the tail is done properly the dog won't have issues. I'm not arguing against floppy ears and tails because that's what someone prefers and it's their dog so they are entitled to do as they please with their dog. I am simply arguing for my right to do the same. That's all. If a spay and neuter is just and is a humans choice then why is a crop and a dock not the same ?

No I don't have to dock his tail that just what I prefer in a Doberman. Schutzhund was created in Germany for GSD. To prove their working capability and the best dogs were the ones that got to breed making their offspring the best of the working dogs. Where I come from a reputable breed must health test and title their dogs. I want my boy to title in Schutzhund. He loves it and it makes him happy, he's the kind of dog that needs a job. Now there are other things to title him in he is from conformation line so I could have shown him in the ring but Eu doesn't do well in the AKC and I don't like the politics in shows so we went to the next best thing and he excels in his work. My rescue we are going to put into agility I like my dogs to have something they enjoy I don't see anything wrong in that ?

I don't know much about cropping other than it needs to be done by someone who knows their job, and good aftercare by the owner.

But I have met hundreds of docked dogs ( owned them) over the years misty Boxers, Rottties and gun dogs, I can't recall any that suffered a life time of suffering due to a dock, the only nasty docks I have witnesses have been terriers done by terrier men.

What's the difference between a dog docked at birth and one done later in life for medical reasons, they both have had tail amputations, the argument a docked dog can't communicate would apply to both wouldn't it ? A docked dog still has a tail it still wags, it still shows happiness, fear, unease, regardless of length.

What's the purpose of curcumsizing a little boy? Do we ask baby boys if it's ok with them? No, we do it when they are infants and so young that they will not remember or be "scarred for life" by the procedure.

Hate it with a passion, and find any surgery done for cosmetic reasons alone selfish and unnecessary Thankfully it's banned here and not something us UK dog peeps have to contend with, or even think about. Of course, people can import cropped eared breeds, but can not show them at any KC event.

Wow.... Great argument. I'm selfish for wanting my dog to have less ear issues ? No it's not just for cosmetic purposes get your facts straight, there are tons of health benefits to ear cropping. You're selfish for spaying and neutering then by that logic. Also not fair that our dogs cant compete, wish the AKC would ban the cropped breeds that aren't cropped from compete over here to even the playing field.

I've met a boxer and a dobe with badly done docked tails. Any knock at all set off sores. The dobe had to have even more of the tail removed so that it was no more than a stump, bless him. Neither dog did well and the problems continued.

I often wonder if some dogs suffer from phantom limb syndrome after docking as I've also known one or two who continually bit at their back end causing them problems

No it's done so early they have no idea. If it was done by some joke of doctor then that's on the person who got the tails done for not doing their research.

This will always be a controversial subject, as many other aspects in dog ownership and there is no easy answer.
Personally I would not put my dogs at risk under anesthetic including neutering for anything other than medical reasons.
Just out of curiosity is their any statistics as to how many dogs with dropped ears get infections in comparison to those with upright ears.


@ MissBoo22 Quote Yes but it's done for a working capable dog. My boy is in schutzhund and a tail is not ideal for a protection trained dog.

I am puzzled by your comment, having done Schutzhund myself there are many breeds especially the Gsd that compete successfully with tails including Dobes and Rotties .

You may want to read some actual studies to support your argument that ear cropping prevents ear infections....

This one says differently.
https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/F...t-ear-cropping-and-canine-otitis-externa.aspx

Note this part - No group deems a high incidence of otitis externa a valid reason for advocating routine cropping of the ears of Cocker Spaniels or Poodles.12, 13 Some breeds, such as the Dalmatian10 and the Anatolian Shepherd Dog14 (where erect ears are an AKC disqualification15) were historically cropped, but this tradition waned without apparent detrimental effects. Nor are traditionally cropped breeds among those with the highest incidence of otitis externa, even in countries where cropping is rarely performed. Thus it cannot be assumed that ear cropping has a medical purpose.

https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/LiteratureReviews/Documents/dogs_ear_cropping_bgnd.pdf

And again -
Benefits— It has been suggested that dogs with cropped ears are less likely to suffer from infections of the ear canal. Although the development of some serious infections has been linked to the presence of a heavy hanging ear8, there is no evidence that cropping prevents or successfully treats these infections. It has also been suggested that cropping avoids later ear injury9 or improves hearing, but no evidence is available to substantiate these claims either.

Another informative article - https://www.animallaw.info/article/...-and-role-law-preventing-unnecessary-cosmetic


And if we're playing the 'I crop/dock to prevent injuries' then the same could be equally applied to a dog's leg, no? My dog just ruptured her cruciate ligaments. If I'd have had her leg amputated it would never have happened! But that's just silly you say. Yet the same logic still applies.

Of course, you're entitled to think and believe what you wish. You're in America, I'm in the UK. It will never concern me what you do with your own dogs and vice versa.

http://www.abouttimecanecorso.com/CropDock.html

I wasn't saying they didn't do well just that no tail would be better as it doesn't give a person something to hold or grab. There are plenty of GSD and Mals in our club all do well I wasn't dissing the tail just that I prefer my dog to not have one. I don't think there is anything wrong with me wanting a docked or cropped dog. I don't care that some have them keep them but I love my breed and want it's tail docked. I don't tell others how they should have their dogs so why is alright for other to push their opinions on my dogs ? I have a Shep mix and love her dearly she has a tail, I don't mind it but I find it annoying to have to watch out for it all the time.

I personally don't understand the logic behind getting a breed that aesthetically doesn't appeal to you, whether that be because it has floppy ears and/or a tail.

Also a good point is that I am in America and actually have real experience on this subject. While close to none of you do. I had a golden and he got chronic ear infections, coincidence ? My small dog has standing ears not once, my shepherd not once, my chow mix not once. My mothers silky terrier floppy ears, she has ear infections from time to time this is ancedotal but it's relevant. It's really not fair for you to " Hate something with a passion" and call me " selfish" on a subject you don't have any experience with and talk down on someone that does. This goes back to me saying it only takes a few uneducated loud mouths and the masses will follow not for once coming up with their own conclusions or even taking the time to be open minded. I do not have a problem with floppy ears and tails I just don't prefer them on my dog and that's my choice to make just as keeping floppy ears is a choice of someone else but taking a choice away is unjust and wrong when one thing like a spay or neuter is acceptable and far more invasive and takes hormones necessary for a dog away and a crop is seen as cruel. Double standard.

So my dobe bites at her rear end because her tail is docked? What's the reason my bassett hound bites at hers then? Its because they have an itch, and that happens to be where it itches.... completely irrelevant to tail or no tail. If its causing issues then that's because the dog is doing it compulsively, like lick granulomas. My dog is not constantly licking her paws because her few claws were removed (because they werent removed!) she was licking them (and the behavior has since been curbed) because of a behavior.

If a RESPONSIBLE breeder gets the puppies docked, it is done by a licensed veterinarian in which case there are little to no issues.

I said I hate the act of cropping which I find selfish - which I do. I hadn't even read one of your posts in the thread up to then, but was directly responding to the OP.

BTW, I know plenty of Americans who are not in favour of cropping. As a matter of fact I'd say it's people within your own breed that are the most vocal about cropping and holding onto 'tradition' whatever that may be. The tide is turning in some other traditionally cropped breeds.

That will be sad if that ever happens but no you are incorrect pro cropping and docking is the majority over here and I don't see that changing. I belong to plenty of Doberman forums all pro crop those who didn't crop regret it. Im glad for those who stand up for cropped breeds and practice as it is an incredible art form. The vet who did my boy has done over 40,000. Those Americans you speak of are probably liberal justice warriors that are offended by everything and I don't take them or their bs seriously ever. I know about cropping have a cropped dog and know what I'm talking about those who don't have invalid arguments as they don't know what they are talking about and dance around things like spays and neuters being humane. Makes no sense at all.

Have you ever owned a cropped dog? If not you really can't speak on the topic without having experience. I personally do not know anyone who prefers uncropped over cropped. Sure they're cute and look more puppy like for longer without being cropped, but everyone I know who did not crop, myself included, regrets not Cropping for many reasons, and not just aesthetics. I wish we had found our pup sooner and she would be cropped, but by the time we found a breeder local enough who had done the proper testing and had a black and tan female left, she was borderline too old to crop so we decided not to, didn't want to risk her ears not standing by cropping too late.