Bones: A Cautionary Tale. Health

I have only given the sterilised bones in the past, but Merry's breeders recommended knuckle bones as a means of keeping her teeth scale free, and I have been converted by the results of letting them have an afternoon's gnawing a couple of times a week. Until this weekend .....
On Saturday evening I brought the Beags in after an afternoon of gnawing. 'Let's look at those pretty teeth', I said, but when I looked at Eddie's teeth, there was a fine line of blood on his large upper molar. The tooth had split lengthways, and the only treatment option was removal.
I don't know why this happened as Eddie's teeth are much larger and stronger than Merry's, but it took our vet 3/4 hour to get the tooth out - in fact one root was so firm she couldn't get it out, and had to grind it to jawbone level. The result was a rather poorly boy for a couple of days, and a bill for £250 - why is it always Eddie?
All bones are now in the bin, and toothcare has reverted to the scaler and the toothbrush!

Mine don't get large weight bearing bones, not only can they cause damage to the teeth, but are more prone to splintering and causing internal injuries. For teeth cleaning, try chicken carcsses/backs, they are much better. Hope Eddie's ok now xx

Poor Eddie - as you said, why always him?

I agree with Joanne about chicken carcasses and/or backs. LO was only fed on kibble and had a pre-disposition to bad teeth due to her dam not being fed properly when in whelp, and even though I brushed her teeth with special dog toothpaste every other day, she ended up minus 14 of them - and the rest were not that good.

But Pereg, who was started on kibble and then changed to raw, had the whitest, strongest teeth ever. Whether it was just the carcasses and backs [and turkey necks] or the fact that I gave them to her frozen, I do not know. Tiny Tikva has now started on [frozen] half backs and small chicken necks, and in spite of her tiny needle teeth [ouch my ankles] she is managing just fine.

Having just been to the Dentist myself (though not because of gnawing bones!) poor Eddie has my sympathy.

I tend to give my lot rib bones, which they seem to cope with very well.including the Chihuahua. I also give them those fish skin treats, which are supposed to help clean their teeth. I'm not bothered if they do or don't as they absolutely love them - though they don't 'arf stink!

But you've certainly given me food for thought about bones.

Poor Eddie, he's really been in the wars just lately, bless him!

I never give my two large bones, partly because they're the only thing they squabble over and fresh beef bones, if you can find them, cost around a £1 a piece. To keep their teeth clean I give them raw chicken necks, wings or their favourite chicken feet a couple of times a week. Gwylim has two of whatever and Georgina four or five as she's got much bigger teeth then little brother. I tried her on turkey necks which are larger thinking they'd last a little longer but for some reason she doesn't like them ... funny girl!

I used to be able to get fresh chicken feet which I used to use for chicken broth as well as giving to Pereg.. Unfortunately now they are not available - Ministry of Agriculture doing the No No No thing. But I would have loved them for Pereg and I am sure Tikva would also love them.

Pereg's freezer has loads of chicken backs and turkey necks [the former I broke into two so there was a larger and a smaller piece, and the turkey necks were also cut in half but they were from the hens so the necks were much smaller. Still too big for Tikva as yet.

I rarely bought chicken necks for Pereg, just turkey necks, but think I should order some chicken necks for Tikva as they are small and I do not think she is big enough for even portions of turkey necks. I am just not used to such a tiny puppy. So I ordered some, plus some turkey gizzards which seem to suit her and work out cheaper than chicken gizzards - which were much too small for Pereg. These I just cut up with scissors and add a load of vegetables for her main meal.

I have also ordered some minced [they call it chopped here] chicken and beef - if they can get hold of any beef. It will be fresh and I will portion and freeze. The mince will be defrosted like the ox lung and turkey gizzards before giving it to her, unlike the "bone" meals which she has frozen.

But I wish I could get hold of chicken feet - for both myself and for Tikva.

Ed refuses to eat raw chicken or fish - he drops down and tries to roll in/on it. He has recently started to take a little raw supermarket minced beef, but he prefers his wet tray stuff. I'm so annoyed with myself as he has lovely teeth - I just couldn't give to Merry and not to him. Sigh!

@Malka I brought some dried chicken feet back from Crufts. Tweed loved them, but he seemed scared of them!
What a wimp!

@CaroleC - it was the fresh chicken feet I used to be able to buy, literally for pennies. a kilo if not free. But that was when chickens could be slaughtered in town at the back of the shuk. Laws changed and all slaughtering has to be done out of town, and chicken feet are no longer available.

It is like raw green tripe. It can no longer be bought. If I want the feet and tripe I have to get a licence, and not being a butcher/poulterer I cannot get a licence, and even if I could I would have to buy tons from the out of town slaughterers.

My vets don't recommend giving any bones (cooked or raw) to dogs, there is a poster up in waiting room at the vets of a dog with broken teeth with part of a bone stuck between the teeth on the top jaw.

I just use dog paste & dog toothbrush along with veggie dental chews (recommend by vets not pedigree ones) they have a minty smell too leaving my dogs breath smelling nice.

photo off packet

I know vets who advocate raw feeding, and who raw feed themselves. A lot of vets don't advocate raw or home cooked, as they sell either Hills Science or RC in the UK, and as those are the two companies who provide the nutritional training element re canines, it's hardly surprising most vets recommend/sell these products.

I read an article some years back, querying the ethics of vets who sell dog toys that can cause injury, including to the teeth. Hard toys and things like chuck it sticks; the argument was how is it possible for vets to sell these products, which were shown to be causing various injuries, and then obviously benefit from the income of treating those injuries.

My vets only sell dog food that their customers have requested they don't recommend that you have a certain brand from them, I do get dry vegetarian dog food for K9 from my vets has I can't find dry vegetarian dog food in pet shops, my vets have never told me to buy a certain brand of food, they managed to get some 40 different samples for me to try from different companies & K9 now has 4 different kilo bags from my vets which range from £2 to £4 per bag, my vets don't stock it in they have to order it for me when I need it, as for toys I have never seen any hard chew toys for sale in my vets.

@Tarimoor - Ram finally accepted that I was raw feeding Pereg although he did have a habit of "reminding" me about bones being compacted in stomachs. They do not sell regular dog food but do carry Hills Science tins for specific conditions. When Pereg had a dodgy renal result in one of her regular blood tests he sold me some Hills prescription tins for renal failure.

I brought them home, checked the ingredients and thought what the Hades - she hated it, just about got through one tin mixed with her regular raw meat/vegetables, and I took the rest of the tins back to him. And her next blood test showed no dodgy renal results at all.

But his new assistant Michal, although she is a vegan [but feeds her dog/s meat, although I do not know if it is raw] has accepted that Tikva is being mostly raw fed now and in the process of coping with light bones, as in chicken carcasses, backs, necks etc.

Ram is not an old or old-fashioned Vet - he was 46 last December, but he never learned about raw feeding as it was not taught. Michal is younger and I do not know what she was taught about feeding, but as long as she is happy for Tikva to eat raw, taking things at her own time, then she is happy with that.

I'm not very good at this multi-quote thing, it doesn't seem to be bringing up your post CaroleC; the vast majority of the vets I walk into in the UK sell either Hills Science or Royal Canin, and promote these food strongly, despite there being much better quality and value for money kibbles out there. Some are completely anti raw feeding, or home feeding cooked food, as they maintain you *must* follow a complete diet. To me, it's absolute rubbish, dogs survived on table scraps very well before commercial dog food arrived on the scene, and I'm completely happy with the raw food diet mine are on, despite being told by a couple of vets that I'm killing my dogs. When I ask about whether any of the bones removed were cooked or raw, they can't ever answer me, to those vets, all bones are bad for dogs.

Nearly every vets I walk into in the UK as well (and I'm currently registered with three and have used many more as I've moved around a bit) have had dog toys for sale, some which were highlighted in the article I read, which I wish I could find as it was a good read.

I'm finding more and more vets are accepting of raw these days, as long as they know the owners aren't just chucking a load of inappropriate bones at their dogs and that they understand the need to balance out a raw diet over time.

I've had the same vet for the past 7 years and have never once been asked about the diet I feed my dogs. Many breeders over here feed Royal Canin, not because its the best food for their dogs or puppies but, I suspect, because its sold to them at a highly discounted price.

No I've never been asked what I feed either, though due to Eddie's UC problem, they do know that he is on grain free complete, with some mince or wet tray food and a variety of veg. It seems to suit him the best, as he can be prone to constipation.
Merry's breeders are very keen on Arden Grange Lamb and Rice, so I have kept her on that for the time being, (with Eddie's extras added). This seems to suit her - she has a lovely dense coat.
I have to admit it is a bit inconvenient having 2 sacks on the go for two smallish dogs though.

@Tarimoor, I think you have the main reason that vets recommend those brands - it is due to sponsored nutrition training. Also, most people on forums like this one are aware of dietary problems and possible deficiencies. For a vet, recommending BARF feeding to the average Joe on the street would be fraught with problems, as the client wouldn't understand the composition of what he was feeding, and could have problems with preparation hygiene.
Most folk want the reassurance of being able to scoop something 'safe' into a dish, or tip it out of a can. Simples!

Oh I completely agree that the majority of people don't want the hassle of raw, particularly home done raw diets, which can take a lot more effort to source and prepare. I'm extremely lucky in that my local butchers gives me a load of freebies whenever I want, so does the fishmonger. I do buy in some prepared stuff for them these days, as I have a lot else going on, including chooks now, but it does make it a lot cheaper having places close by that will give me freebies.

I'd also agree that a lot of people don't do nearly enough research before they switch to raw, and then wonder why their dog is ill when they switch it over from a bland kibble to a huge variety of meaty bones without giving the time needed for their digestive system to make the change as well.

The only dog my vets are concerned about is K9, specially when he was a puppy as he refused to eat meat or any dryfood that was meat based.
It was my vets that told me that K9 could be an vegetarian (like me) it was them that contacted different food manufacturers & got me the free samples, K9 liked 4 of the free samples which is what I buy now, K9 has started eating cooked chicken & wet food in the foil trays, but will still only eat the vegetarian dry food.

In the 70s 80s vets was all for feeding dogs on scraps & raw food, but that all changed in the 90s 00s the vets were saying feed Chappie not scraps or raw food.
Now days dogs are more likely to fed wheat/grain free food & dog food thats specially designed for sensitive tummies.

There's a very informative website that independently rates dog food on a nutritional basis, it's quite an eye opener in respect of some food!

Am I allowed to post links on here, if so I'll post it.