@Tarimoor - you taught me all about raw feeding and it helped me so much with my angel Pereg. Tikva is now well on the way onto raw. She even managed to get through a small piece of frozen raw chicken back before I could remove it from her - she runs so fast! But she is very young, very tiny still, and what she thinks is good for her might not be. So, do I let her have what she wants or what? Her main meal is raw ox lung cut up, with defrosted frozen vegetables. She has also had cut up turkey gizzard - not yet tried her on turkey liver- that is yet to come. And she has not choked on anything and the only thing she brought up was bio yoghurt soon after I started weaning her. She is just so young and so tiny and even though I had hand-reared toy pups in the past, as far as I can remember I weaned them onto what their dams ate. And Tikva should not be a toy as her dam was a full size Dachshund. Tikva was the same size as the other pups, all eight of them. And even though she was far too young she has been thriving first on puppy milk substitute and now with whatever I give her. I am feeding her four times a day, one meal being human baby cereal with half puppy milk and half water, and she goes to her water dish when she is thirsty. One meal is a good quality tinned food, even though I do not like tinned food but I thought she was too small for "real" food, and two meals being raw. She is still tiny but has doubled her weight and was considered to be strong enough for her first puppy shot last Friday when my vet came round to check her. Am I doing the right thing? Does she need to start on vitamins and supplements?
Zasa (my youngest girl) was on raw chicken wings from the age of 5 weeks. As long as she's getting a good three raw meals per day she'll be absolutely fine. Raw eggs are another good source of nutrition, green tripe is excellent if you can get hold of it as well, and out of all the meats chicken for me (and turkey) has the most *balanced* combination of nutrients. Once she's a little older and able to deal with denser bones, lamb, pork and beef etc are a great addition, and good to gnaw on; until then, just add some of the meat, gristle and fat into her diet so she's used to it. On a raw diet they honestly don't need any vitamins and supplements With my bought in pups when tiny, I've used cereal (weetabix) and warm goats milk for their evening meal which helped them sleep through the night
Thank you Joanne - I just knew you would help. I cannot get tripe nor can I get lamb, pork and beef bones. Pereg always had chicken backs or turkey necks for bones. Meat is difficult and very expensive here and I mostly used to get turkey gizzard and liver. The ox lung is wonderful - just look it up. It is also fairly inexpensive! Full of nutrition though. http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3471/2 All the meat, chicken/turkey and lung are human foods. I eat myself but I cook mine and Pereg always had raw. And tiny Tikva is already starting on raw. She sleeps through the night until around 6am - I use human baby cereal with half puppy milk and half water. She is doing fine B"H when you think she was dumped on me at just 3½ weeks. That was on what, 5 June? I had been taken to see her on 2 June and then told "go fetch her" three days later. She did not even have any teeth. She is OK with raw eggs - not tried her again on yoghurt yet but I think I will try her on goat yoghurt. She is OK with cottage cheese though. This is one strange tiny puppy but I think she is doing well. She has gained weight but not much size and I do not think she will get very big. Probably takes after her sire who was, supposedly, a minpin.
Oh bless her, she sounds like she's doing absolutely fine! My lot get all sorts of left overs, and before dog food was invented, that's all dogs were fed on and they did pretty well. Dog foods and particularly all the life stage foods are a modern innovation, and really I don't believe they're necessary. If you feed a dog kibble, then my view is just pick one with good quality ingredients, don't go for all the puppy, yearling, etc varieties. Raw fed dogs don't get the option, they get what an adult gets, just in different amounts at different times of the day when young. The whole feeding thing seems to cause a lot of consternation, and there are dogs that do seem to have terrible problems with their diet, but if what you're doing suits your dog then stick to it basically
I guess that if she has survived so far, and gained weight [but very little size] she must be going OK. The human baby cereal is mixed powder for mixed grain cereal and is for a human baby from about 3 months old - depends on how much water/milk you mix with it, but it has all ingredients listed so if it is good enough for a human baby it must be good enough for a puppy. She has the cereal mix last thing at night and sleeps until about 6am which is when she wakes me so I open her crate and let her wander around and do what she wants while I get a bit more sleep if I am lucky. The only kibble she has is from a sealed pack of Canine Caviar - holistic chicken and millet I bought for Pereg before I read your article on Dogsey. She has that for one meal, soaked in hot water first. And one meal of top quality tinned food. I am not keeping her on the same food each day but she will be fully on raw in another couple of weeks. And ox lung [beef lung] seems to be ideal. I just cut it up with scissors into tiny pieces and she inhales it! But oh is she tiny - and oh does she run around fast. Little booger. I guess I should just feed her on what she wants. Raw or whatever.
When Tau was in whelp, she went completely off her food towards the end, when everyone says you need to be changing to puppy food and give her as much as possible. In the end I resorted to tinned Chappie, not the best food but it was all she'd eat, and my main concern was that she was getting some nutrition inside for the pups. As long as it's not bad for them, and with pups as long as they are putting some weight on, that's what's important
Tikva has well over doubled her weight but considering she was only just over 3 weeks old - I know she was too young but I had no choice. Take her or else. And she is still so very tiny but races around like a loony. Maybe 1 kilo 250g now but she is so tiny. There is no way you would be live she weighs that much. She is a little shrimp. Oh, I forgot to add that she also eats turkey hearts. Just cut up fine with scissors but her favourite is ox lung. Which I think is a Very Good Thing. She is happy, she is healthy, she mostly uses a puppy pad, and I really had no choice but to take her at such a young age. And whatever I am feeding on her, she is thriving. And she is so cute.
Six of my seven dogs eat only human food. Those six are chi's and don't eat much. My big crossbreed gets human food and high quality kibble. I can't remember raw feeding ever being popular in the U.S. Some years ago I had a huge English mastiff who had a small appetite. I could never get him to keep weight on. I contacted breeders here and got no help, so I called another somewhere in the U.K. who told me to feed him raw chicken wings or backs. I never had a single problem after I followed her advice.
When people on the epi List talked about feeding raw, they mostly meant dehydrated "raw" that they buy in packs and then rehydrate. To me that is not raw - it sounds more like kibble. I know I horrified more than a few people when I told them what Pereg ate. "What? You give her raw meat and raw bones? And vegetables?" I cannot buy pet quality raw meat/bones here, which is why Pereg and I ate the same. Luckily my poulterers in the shuk live just up the road from me, so I phone an order and they deliver on their way home. And I had stocked up just before I had to have Pereg euthanised, so her freezer is full. Tikva has not yet realised that her food comes from that freezer as I take a portion out and put it in the refrigerator to defrost, so she thinks her food comes from the refrigerator, hence trying to climb in it when she hears me open its door! I am going to start giving her bones [usually chicken backs which I break in half before packing and freezing them] and or chicken/turkey necks [the turkey necks are also broken in half before packing/freezing] she will have them straight from the freezer. As yet she has only had a small piece but she has taken some of the chews from Pereg's little chew box and does her little best As for the tinned food - I always kept some in for Pereg in case of an emergency, and bought the best I could. The same as I did with the Canine Caviar kibble.
I can see how raw feeding would be good for a dog. Still today wild dogs and wolves eat raw food and they look healthy to me. Growing up I don't remember ever seeing dog food. Any dog we had got the table scraps every night. A few years ago some company came out with frozen tubes of dog food. Rather expensive and it looks like the same as what comes in a can.
I had never heard about raw feeding until I read Joanne's article on Dogsey http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=137215 and the more I read it the more convinced I was that it was probably best for Pereg. During the short few days I had Ziva I fed her raw. She was larger than Tikva and although supposedly a month old she was probably a bit more than that. She definitely had teeth! Chances were she was older, just as I think Tikva was younger than I had been told, which was why I was so carefully weaning her. But, I had not intended giving Tikva frozen bones yet although I found a very small frozen chicken neck and I have no idea where she is taking it but the last I saw she was chombling happily away. That was in the kitchen and she ran as fast as she could before I took the remaining half from her. ...One small dog with a fat belly and minus a chicken neck has just appeared, looking extremely pleased with herself.
The big difference with the frozen minced stuff is that obviously it's raw, and there is likely to be minced bone in there, so not just the stuff they scrape off the bones normally to include in dog food. My lot have been raw fed pretty much all their lives, sometimes for convenience sake they do get a kibble meal, I'm not one of those raw feeding fanatics who thinks you'll kill your dog feeding them dog food, and not everyone has the space or time to raw feed. I've got an entire dog room with dog food prep room adjacent, so can crate those who would try and steal food off the others, or who are slow eaters. The bonus I find with raw feeding, is that here in the UK, as long as you register with the local authority to get a free licence, you can collect and use your own animal by products from butchers, fish mongers and abattoirs, which can work out very cheap or even free. So when you've got five large dogs that certainly helps keep the bills down, and it's all great, healthy food
@Tarimoor - Joanne, because any minced food - and it is all raw, not frozen unless from a supermarket, I know what is in the food Pereg [and I] ate. Frozen from a supermarket is 100% meat with the amount of added water. Usually not much. I know what suited her and what suited Baby Ziva even though she was only with me for such a short time and what now suites Tiny Tikva. Everything I buy raw and unfrozen from my poulterers at the shuk is 100% fresh and I section, pack and freeze it myself.. And I am learning what suits tiny Tikva. It is as if she is telling me what she wants and when. If that makes sense.
@Tarimoor - I think it must be easier weaning larger puppies onto raw but da baby booga has just realised what is in Pereg's freezer in the back room and decided she wanted another chicken neck. I gave her a small piece of chicken back which started in the kitchen, made its way through the bungalow, and ended up in her bed. Much to her disgust I took the remains of it away and shoved it in the freezer for another time. So she has now taken one of Pereg's chews into her bed instead.
She is not teeny tiny and definitely not a teacup pup. Just a bit bigger at the moment! Weighs more than she looks although I cannot keep her still in the bowl on my kitchen scales now and she does not register on my bathroom scales - probably because she runs off them! So I have no idea of her weight now, but no way is she going to be much more than a very very small half Dachshund who does not even look much like one, and if her sire was a "minpin" as the tiny ones here are called, she probably takes after him. But oh has she taken to raw. I always bought turkey gizzards, hearts and liver [I have yet to give her any liver] as the size was perfect for Pereg - I used to cut them in half. Chicken dittos were too small and in any case I prefer the turkey ones for myself. Pereg did not care and Tikva does not either. She also scoffs vegetables but due to my dodgy hands I bought large packs of various frozen - some being mixed. The guy who used to manage the macolet gets catering size packs for me and I just defrost enough for a couple of days at a time. They obviously have regular size packs of frozen vegetables in the macolet but limited and none of the mixed, and like everything else I had had a stock up shortly before I had to have Pereg euthanised. I was limited with the fresh vegetables I could get for Pereg, which is why I changed to frozen. Made life easier as well. As for fish, one of my drivers can get me fish heads, guts [yuck but apparently good for dogs] and bits and pieces for free. No idea which fish but I think an oily as against white fish. Pereg loved all of it and spare fish heads make great fish broth and also have a lot of meat on them. I still have a load in one of my freezers which should last for a while though.
Tikva's last meal is baby cereal with a sachet of [human] powdered [human] baby vegetables, mixed with half pet milk substitute and half water. The sachet of vegetables is suitable for children up to four years, depending how much liquid is added, but can also be added to soups, stews and casseroles for adults. No salt, no sugar, no additives, just what it says on the box. There are various types, some plain ["Plump peas" and "Scrumptious squash" and some with three different vegetables and fruit, and when iHerb emailed me to say they were discontinuing the product I ordered all they had left! About half a dozen different ones. Well, when they were originally $30+ reduced to $8-$13 with eight sachets in a box... Anyhow, Tikva loves them and one sachet plus one measure of mixed whole grain baby cereal, mixed quite thickly, keeps her going all night until she needs to poo, which is when she squeaks to wake me up. She will pee on the pad in her crate if necessary but will not poo in it. So it is up - let her out of her crate - she rushes into the salon and ignores the pee pad but poos on the doormat, then either goes back in her crate or has a wander around and ends up in her bed in the salon until I feel like surfacing. As she seems to prefer the cereal mix in the evening I will keep on giving it to her, but none will be wasted as they will be good for my own soups etc. Also good for adding to her raw meat and vegetable meals. I have also mixed a sachet with half a tub of cottage cheese for her breakfast and that went down scoff scoff scoff, These are just a few of what they do - needless to say I did not buy the one that had raisins in. http://nurturme.com/blends/ - but I did stock up on what iHerb had left, and even though it might not be real "raw" food it is dehydrated real food with no additives. Her other meals are definitely raw though. Being so very small, although growing nicely, I do not want to give her too much bone meals just yet. She is getting sufficient calcium from what she eats and I do not want to give her too much at the moment.. Today she had her first whole frozen fish! I am not sure what it is - looks like a giant sardine, bought fresh and frozen as is - head, fins, tail, bones, guts and all, and once she got the hang of eating it, it did not last long! I know that some people do not agree with changing puppies' food, but I reckon that if she gets used to as many different things as possible I should never have a problem feeding her. It also gets her stomach used to different things, which will come in handy should she ever need to be kenneled in an emergency - there is no way I can expect the Pension to raw feed her, which is why I have gotten her used to tinned food on occasions. She point blank refuses to touch kibble now, either dry or pre-soaked.
