Should pet shops ban breeders from advertising their puppies General Chat

Surely the opposite is true. If the only places allowed to advertise pups are those breeders who are prepared to pay for a website/champdogs account or similar, everyone looking for a pup will be channelled into that route, where there is more likelihood that they will stumble across a good breeder, rather than support a puppy farmer, middle man or plain stooopid breeder who hasn't a clue but thinks there's a shortage of unhealth tested breeds/cross breeds in the world. And the woman down the road who has let her dogs procreate *should* have to microchip her pups anyway, it is soon to be law, and at that point the breeder details should be permanently recorded so that the pup/dog remains their joint responsibility for life.

No because your average Joe Bloggs has never heard of Champ dogs and tbh it's not that user friendly and not all the pups advertised there are from health tested parents anyway, it's really no different to epupz just the better breeders tend to prefer it for some snob value I guess. How many times do we answer queries about how to find a good breeder from experienced dog owners never mind those who have never had one before. Yes micro chipping will become law in 2016 is it but really what use is it? My dogs have only ever been scanned when I've asked for it to be done. The one time I had a dog go missing his chip had failed although I did have a cat returned to me because of her chip 5 months after she went awol. How do you enforce responsibility people move, they don't inform the chip company. Breeders die then who's responsible?

I somewhat agree with Tarimoor about having a site to go to to find a list of KC registered breeders, when I was looking at buying my first Rottweiler I got in touch with the Kennel Club who gave me a list of registered breeders, out of 20 breeders that live near me at the time I narrowed it down to just 5 breeders (I wanted my pup to have a tail) I did the same thing when I decided to move on to Doberman's again I wanted my pup to have a tail, it was the same with my JRT's I wanted pup to have tail, my name is also down with several KC registered GSD breeders (3 of them I have had pups from previously)
I think word of mouth is also another great way of getting a pup from a good breeder.
One of the GSD Breeders always swap one of her pups with another breeder every 2 years (normally female for male never same breeder always different breeders) so when she breeds she has both dam & sire at her kennels, which she always introduce the sire to new owners first before going on to show them the dam with the puppies.

Well the Kc has been listing breeders with pups for decades so if it worked for Joe Bloggs they'd be no problem. Trouble is Joe Bloggs doesn't trust the KC. For word of mouth to work you need to know someone who knows a good breeder, so that's a bit limiting. It's usual for the bitch to visit the sire not to swap, dunno what that would achieve. Look it's not rocket science I have always managed to obtain a decent dog or bitch with the exception of my cocker spaniel but you do need to know what you're looking for and why and to know where to look, it shouldn't be some kind of secret society, this information should be freely available to everyone. You still won't stop joe bloggs falling for the bandy legged crossbreed down the road and I'm not sure it should.

Crikey, not sure why you think snob value, it's because it is the best website to find pups from health tested parents, and it's only got better since I've first known about it. The KC website is ok, but they need to come clean about their ABS scheme, because it is abused by plenty of breeders and it's certainly not the first list I would search.

The vast majority of accidental litters and those where the breeder is ignorant about doing health tests etc, etc, etc are advertised via free ads. Stop that and you'll stop the easy access to sales. Even if this leaves Joe Blogs buying from the woman down the road, that woman down the road no longer has access to the market she previously had, and if her pups don't sell so readily, she'll hopefully stop breeding.

Or, you can just do nothing and let it carry on, chipping isn't perfect but it is better than nothing. My contract of sale stipulates owners must stay in touch and keep me up to date with their contact details, two have moved since they had a pup, and I am still in touch with them, one comes back to me for training. If there are two contacts on the microchip details, ie breeder/owner, then there's a much better chance of finding someone who is *responsible* for the life of that dog, barring chip failure, which has to be uncommon. There is more and more pressure these days to scan pets which are found to try and find their owners, which I'd rather push for, again, it can only help. I'd like to see DNA profiling become more common, as that would also prove parentage for some breeders who like to switch pups/dogs around etc.

As for dying, I have a friend who I am leaving all my dogs to, kennel affix if she wants it and the funds to ensure they are looked after for life. Simples.

It does not matter how you advertise pup, you can tighten it up as much as you like, do you really think every person who breeds dogs is going to follow the law...

They don't now, there are laws in place as it is and they are not policed, where are you going to get all the people to enforce these new rules.

Micro chipping every pup born in this country, yeah right, I won't hold my breath waiting for it to happen.

There are already reputable sites ( they may have some faults, ) but it's better than nothing, yet proporantly I wonder how many people still don't even bother researching , they just buy the cheapest from the nearest , and have no idea ( or wish to learn) about good breeding and health.

Dying ain't that simple tbh, Syd my male Dobermann no longer with me, his breeder died quite suddenly 3 weeks after being diagnosed with cancer, her OH who she would have expected to deal with everything topped himself. Her dogs ended up here there and everywhere, ok with reputable breeders, none of whom contacted us to tell what was going on. So had I popped my clogs as I very nearly did twice how could I have a breeder to fall back on. There are no guarantees with anything in life and we kid ourselves if we think otherwise.
Chipping better than nothing, it is, but only marginally and all of mine have been chipped since the 80's, still no use when the only one to go awol was scanned .I'm not anti crossbreeds or anti free ads people should have freedom of choice, Not all pedigree dogs are better bred so if a breeder of crosses does it well I have nothing against it.
Seriously champdogs may be the best of a bad lot but it's far from great, I'd be far more impressed if they only listed litters from health tested parents but they don't and many are only health tested on one side, what's the point of that. That's not good breeding practice. The snob value comes in because breeders who advertise on there slate epupz what's the difference ? A quality dog is a quality dog wherever it's advertised.

Places like Crufts, discovery dogs, breed rescue homes, local councils, RSPCA, dog shows, all these places could all have good registered breeders on file.
Also more must be done to veto new owners, Joe Blogs might seem ok but could have a criminal record against animal cruelty, but the woman down the road won't want to veto anyone as it might mean her not selling any pups & she be left with them.
What is needed is something in place that will stop BYB's advertising their pups in petshops freepapers internet gumtree so for, make it hard for them to advertise/sell pups will hopefully cut down on these so called BYB's.
Example on GumTree :
Staffie puppies no papers hence price only £100 each or 2 for £150 adverts like this must be stopped, no ifs or buts & if that means preventing breeders who don't have a licence from advertising their pups in free papers, petshops & so on, as to be a step forward in reducing unwanted poorly puppies from being bred by BYB's

Should also point out the same breeder advertising the staffie puppies is also advertising Poodles, Yorkies & Labradors all with same deal buy 1 for £100 or buy 2 for £150.

How do you differentiate between a crap breeder who doesn't give a monkey's and one who has bred 1 litter of crosses and poured their heart and soul into them. Will theyboth be prosecuted?

That's a dealer most likely or a puppy farm

This is the thing Trouble there needs to be something in place to deter unregistered breeders from using their dogs as a money making machine.

What is an unregistered breeder?

We all know they want it and they want it now and to hell with the consequences, easy come easy go in most cases. Pet becomes ill they can't afford the treatment at best they take it to the Pdsa or Battersea but Battersea will only treat if you sign it over Pdsa may well pts

Perhaps rather than simply banning adverts, sites and pet shops could have simple warnings displayed, telling people what to expect from a breeder, what to ask them, and the danger signs to watch out for. Most sites have advice about selecting a healthy puppy, and perhaps they'll advise seeing the mother with the puppy, but I've never seen one with advice on how to spot a dealer/farmer/importer when looking for a puppy.

Didn't realise I couldn't do multi quotes so sorry Jackie, wanted to quote you as well, but simply put, it's not beyond the realms of possibility to make it law for all pups/dogs registered via vets to be microchipped and have details recorded. It may not be *the* answer, but it's better than nothing surely to try and record details of the breeder AND owner.

And yes, am well aware laws aren't currently enforced as well as they could be.

Personally, when it comes to KC registration, I would prefer the KC to charge more to people who don't bother with health tests, than charge those who go above and beyond the suggested health tests to pay extra to join their ABS, some do the bare minimum use their own stud dogs all the time and are ABS members, it's cr@p.

We can all go on about the worst consequences, how we can all die horribly and nobody we know sticks around, but at least you can try and make contingency plans in case of the worst, and try and ensure our dogs/pups end up with someone who will take care of them, and that the puppy/dog owners have someone else to turn to should they need help.

There seems to be a lot of negativity about trying to make things more difficult to sell on pups from bybs etc, personally I'd rather see that route than nothing at all done, I'm fed up of seeing posts about people who've just gone and bought a pup, or been lied to, and seeing adverts for litters of pups where you just know it's been done for cash, all pups are cute and lovely, but at the moment they are being churned out simply to be put to sleep!

This would include Puppy Farmers.

There is no way puppy farmers/byb would be responsible for a puppy for life.

@ 6 jrts Quote One of the GSD Breeders always swap one of her pups with another breeder every 2 years (normally female for male never same breeder always different breeders) so when she breeds she has both dam & sire at her kennels, which she always introduce the sire to new owners first before going on to show them the dam with the puppies.
Ive been involved in GSD’s all my life and know many breeders but have never come across or heard of one who did this, if they did id run for the hills.

Yes it would, but if you made them register joint details, and they didn't want a pup back, fine the b*gga!

They've been called hybrids for some time. It depends what the breeder wants to use to attract attention and market their pups.

Yes I'd buy without seeing both parents. I've bought without seeing either parent actually. I'm sure others have too if you wish to buy from a breeding that is some distance or another country.

I think it'd depend on the health check. I'd rather have health tested parents. Though there are not test for every issue pedigree research is in order.

How do we know these pups haven't been wormed? I don't think most breeders advertise that they de worm like they do titles or health tests? I'd not want to buy a pup that hasn't been wormed though, that's basic care. However it is pretty easy to worm them when you get them. My main concern is infecting the other pets.

I don't think there will be a correlation of dumped dogs if they are banned from advertising in pet shops.

I've also slays felt that good breeders should advertise where ever. Helps to educate and uneducated person can find a good breeder and learn the difference.

Well after much digging around (snooping) have found out the hybrid puppies are Chow X Tibetan Mastif, 2 have already been sold & breeder as reduce the price of the other puppies for quick sale, bitches are now £750 & males are £700.

House looks real scruffy (looking at photo's that are now clear on new A4 poster) breeder is still calling the puppies hybrids, have googled area it's what is known as lady of the night area & is well known for gang activity.