Pitfalls of removing a puppy early from its mother Discussions

This article about sums it up and is very relevant in line of recent discussion - http://www.snowdog.guru/true-cost-early-removal-puppy-mother-litter-mates/

Pups learn so much from their litter mates and mum, and the longer they stay with mum the better. I actually would prefer to bring all my puppies home around the 10 week mark.

I speed read that article because I disagree with it, modern thinking is actually most larger breeds are ready and able to leave at 6 weeks as Smokeybear kept telling us, the thought of keeping a whole litter till ten weeks would drive the breeder up the wall.
8 weeks is old enough. Rio my female Dobermann came at 7 weeks was more than ready and never had a single behaviour issue in her life, she was an extremely well balanced dog. 10 to 12 weeks would be unthinkable for most breeders, it has nothing to do with cost it's about the best time for the dog to go. The 3 pups we just raised were a right handful at 7 weeks never mind 10, by 10 we would have been climbing the walls. I've had pups at several ages ranging from the 4 day old ones just raised to Tucson at 16 weeks and Frankie although I was his second owner at 20 weeks, none have or have ever had issues. It's a bit too soon to tell with the ones that have just left but I doubt those bold little monsters are going to struggle, it 's now up to their new owners to continue the good work.

Well, it's not really about when puppies are ready to leave because with that line of thinking a pup would be ready to go anytime around weaning from 3/4 weeks onwards. But there is a reason most breeders keep their pups until 8 weeks. No owner can offer the same lessons and development that would occur within the litter and from the pup's mother. And yes, 8 weeks is perfectly acceptable, 7 weeks is even the norm within some breeds not that I agree with that young, but as long as the puppies have learnt the appropriate lessons and are developmentally ready then it's just breeder preference when to let them go at that stage. And 10 weeks is quite normal for breeders of toy litters, even 12 weeks.

I tend to go with the 7 weeks rather than older or younger. By 7 weeks the valuable lessons that the dam and siblings offer have been learned and they are ready for new experiences that will occur throughout their lives in their new home.

Of course, there are exceptions. If mum rejects the pups, if one pup is being bullied too heavily and too often etc where there is no option but to get the pup(s) away. With someone who is patient and willing to put in the time to teach life's lessons, these pups more often than not do very well behaviourally

My own pups were eating solid food at 3 weeks old, their choice not mind, they began eating Skye's (mom) dinner, as soon as they started eating her food she stopped them from suckling from her, so I ended up bottle feeding them until they were 5weeks old, it was K9 (dad) that was spending more & more time with them during the day, Skye stopped sleeping with the pups as soon as they turned 4 weeks old.
I have spoken to other JRT breeders who have all said the same, some bitches will walk away from their pups as soon as their eyes are open & eating solid food roughly around 3 weeks.
I have a special bond with my hooligans, which you don't get when you bring home a 8 to 12 week old pup.

Fashions change , when I was younger you mostly brought your pup home a 6 weeks, so don't think this is moden thinking, it was the norm then , opinions changed and 7/8 weeks is more the norm now.

It will also depend on size and development of said litter, the thinking is medium to large breeds are ready to go from 7 ish weeks old, 8 is better, but 7 1/2 is acceptable . Toy breeds don't usually go till 10 /12 weeks, some even a little longer.

Keeping pups till the above ages , is not just about the weaning , but socialisation, they learn so much in those last few weeks, interaction with each other is education they can't get elsewhere.

I know SB used to preach 6 weeks is the right age, because you can introduce pups to the environment , but a good breeder can do the same. Yes by the time the pups reach an age they are ready to go, the breeder and probably the dam is ready to see them go, 8 or more 6/8 week old pups running round can test anyone's patience , but that comes with the territory ....if you are a responsible breeder, you do what's right for the pups.

I know someone who bought a large bull breed, they thought it was 6 weeks old, it turned out to be 3, long story cut short, they had to have it PTS before it was 2 yrs old, due to temperament , to be honest I can't think of anyone who would allow their pups to leave before 8 weeks old, a day or two either way, I'm sure some breeders will send them on their way as soon as they can, but I would not buy from such a breeder.

I know a good breeder can start socialising the pups but with the likes of Dobermanns where an average litter is say 10 -12 pups they won't be getting much individual attention while being socialised. Good breeders do start taking them out in the car etc and taking them to the vets 10-12 weeks they would be fully vaxed and I really can't get my head around any breeder keeping 10-12 pups till they're 10-12 weeks old it would chaotic at best and I personally wouldn't want to take on a large breed pup at that age unless he'd had individual attention from the breeder, in which case he would have been held back for a reason.

Most breeders will stArt to wean around 3/4 weeks old, At this time the bitch will stop cleaning up after them, but it would be unusual for a bitch to stop feeding them altogether mm she will over the following weeks start to distance herself and withdraw milk, till pups are fully weaned, but all bitches are individual some may carry on feeding/ sleeping with her pups, some may spend not.

Eyes open at around 2/3 weeks it would be unusual for a bitch to walk away from her pups at this stage, regarding JRT , I have seem plenty of litters, and to be honest from my experience , they make attentive mothers, not wanting to leave their babies for any length of time.

From my understanding , it's only toy breeds that would stay till that age, mist larger breeds would go from 71/2 weeks 8 at the most.

I'd like this to be explained. I got my guy at 16 weeks and nobody can convince me that they have a stronger or better bond than we do. He sleeps with me, will never go far from me, doesn't even have to be called to come behind me, follows me every where and would never let anything happen to me.

No such thing as a stronger bond, so I highly doubt the age has a ton to do with bonding... it's the individual dogs personality and the owners personality and how much time they spend together that creates a bond.

Even dogs acquired at adult or even senior ages often seem to have excellent bonds with their owners, it's all about how the dog is treated and how much the owner loves the dog. I'm going to stand against bonding having a TON to do with getting a puppy way too early.

I've never bred a litter so I have no way of knowing for sure whether Tina is right about having a special bond. All I know is that I have brought home puppies ranging from six weeks to ten weeks, and rehomed adult dogs as old as nine. And I felt as close to Jessie, the unwanted nine year old cocker, as I did to the puppies I had from a young age.

A bit of a odd statement


So what you are saying, you can only have a special bond with your dog if you have hand reared it.

So the rest of us who get our dogs at 8 weeks, or older, rescue dogs , re homes and so on, can't possible get a special bond with them.

Yes but the link to the article suggests 10 to 12 weeks is ideal and anything earlier is wrong, total tosh.

I kept all of my puppies by the time they were 6 weeks old they all had excellent recall was totally house trained & was sitting & waiting on commend.

On their first day out at 12 weeks old I let all of the hooligans off their leads along with K9 & Skye, when the pups went to far ahead I called them back & they all came wobbling back sat when told & waited for me to put their leads back on, walking calmly to my heel without dragging their feet or trying to chew their leads.

Like I said by partly hand rearing the hooligans from 3 weeks old, we have a special strong bond which you don't get from a 8 to 12 week old pup when you first bring them home.

As from April next year there will be a minimum age a puppy can leave its mum think it said 11-12 weeks old pup must of had both injections & be chipped with breeders details & new owners details, they only way puppies will be able to leave before 11-12 weeks will be if the pups are being hand reared, this info is up on the wall of my vets along with the New laws about your dog barking/jumping up at peple when you open your front door.

People always claim they have a stronger bond with one they brought home early or like Myra one that came home late, simple fact is some dogs and some people bond better than others. Previously I had the strongest bond with Syd male Dobie came home at 8 weeks. Currently closest bond is Tucson pug came home at 16 weeks. It's got bugger all to do with age, hand rearing etc it's the dogs personality clicking with yours.

I didn't read the article, but I agree with you on that !

I thought the legislation coming in was a minimum of 8 weeks anything older than that is ridiculous tbh

It's easy to train good recalls , sits and stays in the confines of your own home...because there are no distractions..

Also having a good recall at 12 weeks old is not unusual for most pups regardless of when you get them, due to then still being in the needy period, their apron strings are still very firmly attached at this stage of their life.

To be honest you don't have anymore of a special bond with your pups, than I gave had with all my dogs, because everything you say you've achieved due to you hand rearing them , I have managed the same with all mine from 8 weeks old .

I agree....maybe Tina can provide the link to the legalisation .