Ethical Breeders Charter General Chat

Yes, as I think it does depend on how many bitches they keep - and how many people are wanting a puppy from that bloodline. I think one litter a year per bitch is more than enough - my girls were housedogs, and I used to take only 2, or possibly 3 litters in a lifetime (as in toydogs you might occasionally only get a very small litter). However, the motivation was to keep something in the ring, or to keep a line going, other folk could well have different ideas.

Just spotted your reply Malka. Rather similar opinions aren't they?

Ive known breeders who have bred back to back then give the bitch a year off.
Lots of Ethical breeders are now putting a contract ‘Progeny not eligible for registration and requiring the purchaser to spay/neuter on pet quality dogs, which I think is a good idea.

What is the meaning "registered" in the UK? Does the puppy without registration in purebred litter don't get pedigree document at all?
In FCI system every puppy in the litter will get pedigree documents. If the puppy has some major faults like broken tail, blue eyes etc. all it will be noted on the document and such puppy can't be breed farther.
All other puppies can be breed if breeder didn't say otherwise when he sold the puppy (some type of contract).

I also like the idea "to verify the ownership" and registered members should be able to complain about the link, but privately. For example, maybe breeder’s link is broken; it would help to clean bad links.

I think it's good. But I'm not sure on the "weeks supply of food"

Most of the breeders will have some dificulty with adding verification code. As most of them use simple way to create their websites, they know as much as using word.
So at least you will have to add tutorial, how to do it at all.

When I was still breeding I allowed one litter per bitch every 18 to 24 months. That is about as often as my girls went into heat. It all depended on the condition of the bitch. Some were not bred as often as that. Also, I make it a point not to join any clubs...ever, although I have been invited to join several repeatedly. I am friendly with people who are members of different clubs. I have no use for club politics and clichés and secrets that may be detrimental to the breed.

How would you police this? I know ABS members who slip under the net with their supposed *good* breeding, including allowing stud dogs to sire not just one, but two litters to the same bitch who failed an eye test for HC. Pups were unregistered, so no paper trail.

I go well above the ABS recommendations and only breed when I want to keep back a bitch pup for myself, to be honest, when people find a good breeder and you get a name for it, you don't really need much advertising. My first litter I could have sold many times over, the litter I have planned with Rhuna I've had to stop taking names and she didn't take at her last season, but all the waiting list want to wait. I'm already getting enquiries about the ratbaggage brown thing for her planned litter in 2016. So I'm wondering how it will work, because word of mouth often travels quicker than *lists* of supposedly good breeders, and I include supposedly because both the KC and other websites listing breeders have no real way of policing breeders, even ABS members lie about what they're doing.

I agree with the majority, disagree with some,even though the kc has the best of intentions for the welfare of dogs,they still fail in regards to some breeders /kennels show dogs,they allow some people to home up to 10 girls,1 or 2 studs,producing a lot of quality pups but don't meet the standards to show,these dogs end up getting rehomed, castrated,endorsements ect
What's happend to having a dog as a pet
From personal experience I tried buying a kc dog N the majority of sellers were in the show side of dogs, endorsements
Contracts ect looks good on paper
But most times they miss out on wats best for the dog
A loving family home
RANT OVER

Only one or two from a litter will be show quality, most pups are sold as companions, only the most suitable should be bred from so endorsements are one way for a breeder to try to ensure that is what happens. Having the endorsement does not make the dog any less suitable as a family pet.

Should the pup grow into a good specimen of the breed and the owner is prepared to have relevant health checks done ect: some breeders will lift the endorsement.

I think all breeders should chip their puppies so no matter what the consequences of the litter they can be returned under any circumstances. I'm sure that'll never happen. Just wishful thinking.

We do have that as a legal requirement in the UK. However, for the majority of found dogs, though there is a chip - it has never been updated since the puppy or dog last changed hands, and not all breeders keep full records.
Too much effort, or does the updating charge of around £10 seem to expensive? Sadly, the pet-owning public seem to think that loss or theft could never happen to them.

I wouldn't make it mandatory for owners to transfer the chip. 1-owners often abandon dogs and they shouldn't get it back 2-owners are such poor caretakers they are often repeat offenders of loose dogs 3-The breeder is responsible for every puppy they bring into the world. 4-The breeder should be responsible to keep records I mean they make 2k per pup have a 10 pup litter and that's 20 THOUSAND bucks (one female) if they can't keep records they should be banned as breeders. 5-Why should a loose dog be returned to owner? And under what circumstances? Let the breeder/rescue/shelter decide. If the breeder gets it back thru animal control they can be sure to check that the dog has been altered. There is no reason the breeder can't be located to return the dog. That's the situation I would prefer.

The chip would only trace to the breeder if they implanted the litter themselves, and it would only be worth becoming a breeder/ implanter if you bred in large numbers. Usually it is a vet who chips the majority of pet puppies at 8 weeks. To the best of my knowledge, neither the vet nor the chip records the breeder - only the implanter. Though we have the law there must be thousands of crossbred puppies that don't get an 8 week check.
Conditions may be different over here - Yes, we do have abandonments, but it is rare to see a loose dog unless somebody, somewhere, is searching for him. The majority of lost dogs are either accidentally open gates, or sadly, pet theft.

In US breeders in some states are agricultural like breeding dogs is a business. A legit one. I've been to pick up a pup at a very reputable breeder, I mean she has titled dogs used for breeding but when I got there and she's agricultural she has too many dogs, keeps them in sheds, her yard is a mess with dog poo, she had employees doing most of the work. She probably has about 8 breeding females, a couple males all titled but she trades a litter for titles. So she gets between 2-3k per pup and shepherds have 10 pups a litter generally that's 30k per female (x 8-240k) and likely breeds females 2x a year but not necessary in her case she doesn't have to. They like to make a point of telling about how much the vet bill is etc. She brings so many pups into the world she could never take many back.
Vets could chip the pups at the last visit (shots) included in price of pup-they won't miss that cost. Even backyard breeder should have pups chipped MANDATORY BY LAW. I'm not fooling around. They get off too easy making more and more pups some even have females sold with breeding rights. That should be a crime. No cost litters.