Loughlanders? Bernese Mountain Dog with Newfoundland Questions

Hiya,
Right well this is the first time i've used a dog forum but i'm desperate to find out some information and i guessed this could be the best place to do it?
My query is based upon a breed named Loughlander which is said to be a Bernese Mountain Dog but with throwbacks to Newfoundlands. I am just really keen to find out any information people have on these Loughlanders and i would especially like to hear from anyone who actually has one themselves.
Thanks
Doodles:smt039

never heard of them are you sure your not talking about the landsteer?
the landsteer is a newfie but its a black and white coat.

Same here the Bernese Mountain Dog is known as the Berner sennehund hope its spelt right and the Newfoundland Landseer is the black and white Newfie.I had a newfiexberner but she was not known as a loughlander just a bernerxnewfie.Have you tried the internet and typing in loughlander.Mine was an accidental mating which breeder will make sure never happens again..

Just typed in both spellings and nothing related to dogs.

Bernese mountain dogs originate in Switzerland. In the early part of the 1900s numbers went into decline and the breed was nearly extinct at one point. As far as I am aware, a newfoundland was used in the breeding to increase numbers and to re-establish the breed around the late 1940s. Any 'throwback' would therefore be to one dog many many generations ago and would probably be unlikely to crop up often (if at all) these days. Certainly, no-one would be able to guarantee such a 'throwback' (ie, a purebred Bernese showing definite Newfie characteristics) would occur in a litter, much less advertise them as a breed. Indeed, Bernese breeders are breeding to produce good examples of the Berner breed and would not wnat to produce dogs that showed obvious traits of another breed. On the other hand, I suppose you could say that all today's Bernese are throwbacks to Newfies as almost all lines will trace back to the one Newfie introduced to the breeding all those years ago. Still doesn't make them a different breed though! Incidently, St Bernards (another Swiss breed) also had Newfies introduced into the breeding many years ago when the breed was almost wiped out in Europe by distemper. What would Switzerland have done without the good old Newf?

I would suggest that if someone is indeed advertising a 'Loughlander' as a Berner with throwbacks to Newfoundland', what they probably have is a crossbreed or poorly bred Bernese Mountain Dog.

Would agree with that and I remember our breeder telling us that in the 70's the Bernese in some cases not all were showing uncharacterstic lines being slightly agressive and the Newfie was introduced into the breed to stop that and bring the Berner back to its original temperament.So ocassionally it is done delibareteley to make sure the Breed stays as it is meant to be placid.If any one is advertising a newfiexberner that is exactly what it is a cross breed.There is not necessarily anything wrong with that if it is accidental and they are not expectiing you to pay the equivalent for pedigree Berner or Newfie,and it is a one off.

Hi Doodles

I've never heard of Loughlanders either and I've been involved with the breed since the mid 70s. Many of our UK Bernese breeders did happen to own Newfs too and there were a few cross bred litters reported through the decades but none of these were officially incorporated into the Bernese gene pool.

I've never heard of a name given to these crosses except for one breeder in Abergavenny, East Wales who attempted to establish a new breed, calling them "Welsh Mountain Dogs" just a few years ago, using Bernese, Newf and Border Collie (or was Welsh Sheepdog?) blood. Her website is no longer up so I can only suppose that her plans fell through.

The introduction of Newf blood to the Bernese gene pool that Shaynlola mentions was in the 40s in Switzerland and is thought to be an accidental mating that was then used to improve temperament as Zantababy says but only the one mating was offcially incorporated into the Bernese bloodlines.

Loughlander is actually a name that has been given by some people to a cross between a Bernese Mountain Dog and a Newfoundland. They then had BC added and were called Welsh Mountain Dogs as previously mentioned.

Hi willowish,
Do you have any more information about loughlanders or could you maybe point us in the direction of someone who may be able to tell us a bit more. Thanks

From waht Willowish has said, a Loughlander is NOT a breed, just a name given by someone to a cross of two breeds....might otherwise be known as a mongrel or a mutt but that probably wouldn't entice someone to part with huge sums of cash

Reputable breeders of both breeds (Berners and Newfies) would be horrified at the idea of crossing the two although, as has been already stated, the occasional accidental litter does happen but they would be sold as such...an accidental cross and would not have a pretty name attached to try to disguise the fact.

Bernese Mountain Dogs are known to be prone to certain diseases. I believe hip dysplasia, osteochondrosis of the shoulder and elbow,ectropian/entropian, trembler (hypomyelinigenesis) and elongated soft palate are the most common.

Newfoundlands also are predisposed to Hip Dysplasia, heart conditions, elbow dysplasia and cystinuria among others.

Reputable breeders breed to try to ensure as far as possible that their dogs will not be affected by these hereditary diseases and test accordingly. I would doubt that anyone deliberately crossing the two breeds would be quite so diligent. The thought of producing a litter that could suffer from some or all of the aforementioned problems doesn't bear thinking about :-( As someone with an interest in both of these wonderful breeds, I am very glad that I have never heard of 'Loughlanders' and that there does not appear to be many deliberate crosses produced

If you like the two breeds, why not look into each separately and go to meet a couple of breeders (or to a show) and see if one or the other appeals to you. That way, you can be sure of the dog that you will hopefully be sharing 10-12 years of your life with

good point.
all the large / giants can have hip problems.
like mine leo's backgrounds are neffies/st bernard and pyrenees.
please consider what your taking on and the attention and care a dog of this size needs.

I would also like to add while on the health problem side,Berners are prone to cancer,which is a major consideration when getting one as we lost another dog to cancer at a young age,but weighing up the pros and cons feel it is worth it as it may never happen.Doing the research really helps.

Very good point ZB That is why it is so important to go to a good breeder and learn about their lines as you will know if their dogs generally make it into old age without developing any signs of hereditary diseases.

I have heard of loughlanders and welsh mountain dogs in an article in one of the dog mags I read, it was a couple of years ago. It got me curious and the welsh mountain dog,it would seem, has been designed by breeders trying to create a longer living large dog that has pet and working potential. They certainly were beautiful in the photos.

"A well known Bernese breeder in the north of England invented the name "Loughlander" for the offspring of Bernese crossed with other breeds that she has kept and bred over many years."

Just something I found on another forum, seems like they are literally just a crossbreed.

Well I don't really think that the breed of dog matters, or whether it’s a thorough breed or cross breed. To me it what matters is the dog itself and its disposition and personality. You can get dogs of certain breeds that are absolute evil dogs of Satan and you can find a cross breed that is the sweetest dog you have ever had and vice versa. I asked the question about Loughlanders out of curiosity and if I knew there was going to be such sarcasm and animosity posted back I doubt I would have bothered because to be totally honest I found out how good Loughlanders were on my own through looking at my own gorgeous puppy, Thanks.

True, but health is also another important aspect to remember and I think that people are just concerned that crossing such big dogs together could be a disaster without appropriate health checks. Personally (and this is not meant to be personal to you) I prefer to do the research before I pick a breed rather than after.

But I'm glad you're happy with your pup and hope you have many happy years together.

Well I hope we do aswell having kept other breeds such as St Bernards and Pyranean Mountain Dogs and having health problems with them such as weak back legs and heart problems in later life which has caused a lot of heart ache. The best you can do is give them the best you can whilst they are with you as there is little you can do about health problems. Pedigree dogs even suffer from such problems so there is little you can do in the way of finding a perfectly healthy dog.

Err what about health testing the parents? This should be done with any planned mating be it cross breed or pure breed.

No-one can 100% guarantee that a dog will be healthy all its life but carrying out the appropriate health tests for the breed and ensuring that only those dogs that have satisfactory results are bred from can certainly load the dice in your favour.

I do hope that the breeder of your pup had the parents health tested. If not, I'm afraid that the chances of your pup remaining healthy are decreased rather than increased.

Heart testing in the Newfoundland is of particular importance as there are a couple of conditions that they are prone to (sub-aortic stenosis & dilated cardio myopathy) and which will seriously affect quality of life in a pup who has inherited one or other. Indeed, in the case of one of the conditions, affected dogs are unlikely to make it beyond 3 years of age :-( If you have no idea that the parent dog (and other dogs in the line) tested clear, then I'm afraid you'll just have to cross your fingers and hope for the best. That's not to mention all the other inherited conditions that can affect both breeds. It is a myth that crossbreeding creates healthier dogs.