As I saw this should be the right place for my first post in this forum. I was wondering if I should directly post in the breed section but finally I will introduce myself at first. I'm not native English speaker so be warned if there are mistakes in my posts xD My name is Martin and I'm living together with my girlfriend and 2 pugs and a chihuahua in Hamburg, Germany. We gonna try to breed the pugs if we collected enough material about breeding and doing the health tests. But that's the thing of my girlfriend (what doesn't mean that I'm not interested to beware the breed of health issues concerning the noses and the huge amount of wrinkles, definitely not necessary for a dog). My biggest love is directed to another sort of dog, pit bulls and staffordshires. Since I met the first staff in real I was fascinated. It was a puppy, a blue one. I never saw such a "typical dog" which was present in my head the whole time. When this happened I started to do researches about the breed and ye how shall I say, it was very difficult to distinguish between the 3 registered ones at first (ast, apbt, sbt) but the more I get into it the more addicted I became of this breed. I read all about the history, and then I started to focus on the blue ones. I had a Weimaraner in the past and so I felt in love with this coat color. After weeks of researches about dilute genes, blue dog syndrome, mass breeding for color and a higher price, I found the term irish staffordshire bullterrier. I thought I got it, finally. Most of them were blue (check) they are the working type (I'm scared of the show type, I know much about diseases and lack of health being ignored in the showring) and they are from Ireland next to England. Since I read the history I always thought about getting an original one from the home of this breed England (sorry America, I don't like your bigger is better mentality regarding this breed lol). Ye I know when you are reading this, you must be thinking, what a fanatic. That's true. I want to have a healthy stable not that short bullterrier as you can see in the showring in ukc and not the oversized ones as you can see in akc. The ideal type would be the pit bull himself, but and yes that's a little bit racism I know, they aren't blue if I am correctly informed. I found some nice dogs here in forum also calling them isbt and that's why I am here. Can anyone give me addresses, hints or other stuff regarding this strain/line/type of the sbt? Or is there anyone knows about blue pitbulls (working ones, athletic type?) I know some people of you are considering, that the isbt is a crossbreed of sbt ebt and apbt, but I just think that it's normal to cross some other dogs of the same type in to get a healthy dog, but I also wouldn't say, that this should be done regularly, no there should be one line at the end. And for this line I am searching the web the last couple of weeks (names like Ed Reid, Steve keetch were fallen) but they all seem to be offline. Last but not least I'm trying to give some pictures, maybe you can remember names or breeders or have at least an imagination about what I have spoken he last 5 minutes lol. https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#AC532ODWGLZhB6 By the way, I'm preferring the small heads and the dark blue ones.
Welcome to Dogsey! Don't have a clue about anything you are talking about but the dogs shown in the link you put in do look like lovely dogs.
Good luck in finding the type of dog you are looking for! Regarding the possibility of breeding your pugs, perhaps you should post for advice in the Dog Breeding section on Dogsey.
Welcome to Dogsey. Pit bulls are a banned breed in the UK. They do exist still but by the laws that were brought about shouldn't. The Pit bull is not a banned breed in America. So you would not be able to source a reputably bred Pit bull from the UK. It would have to be the US or elsewhere in Europe. I hope I have answered some of the question for you. If you google Pit bull breeders there are lots of breeders on there here is an example. http://www.muglestonspitbullfarm.com/ Here is the link to the UK Staffordshire Bull terrier group always worth going though a breed club if possible. http://www.thesbtc.co.uk/ Here is a continental breed club for Pit bulls hard to find and American one. http://www.continentalkennelclub.com/Ads.aspx?BreedNum=20
Thank you for your first answers. @Lynn: I don't even know if there are blue pitbulls around. I think the working standard, in which I am interested is not interested in blue or dark ones. The heavy ones are blue but I think they are cross breeds with American bulldogs and other dogs. That's why I was asking for this irish staff. He sounds for me like an old type stafford, healthy and athletic and the best thing (wherever it comes from) blue coat. I can imagine, that the breeding of the black irish staffs lead to dilute the coat into blue. And because of the lack of black (real) pitbulls there is not such a color in their coat. A real pitbull is that for me: I read posts in this forum of 2005 and 2006, maybe the members around them (bluechina, Laura) aren't active anymore Here in Germany there is just one part allowing all types of dogs and it's nearby hehe. I can't understand why some dogs should be punished just because of their history. It's simply not fair. Edit: I saw you moving my thread into breed section, that's ok but then I need another title xD maybe: 'Feed me with information: Old tyme staff/ irish staff' Thank you (I can't edit the title somehow)
Hello and welcome leaving the breeding of the pugs alone for now, a couple go things in your post caught my attention. Irish staffordshire bull terrier is a name given by some to the pit bull or pit bull cross. The breeds you mention the only pure bred ones are the American pit bull and the staffordshire bull terrier, the rest are all degrees of cross breeds, Regarding your comment on health being ignored in the show ring.....this is as far from the truth that you can get, how do you think has unset gated ALL research , DNA TESTING and documenting health issues in the pure bred dog, the breed clubs and breeders ( most who show) work hard to eradicate health issues in their breeds... The photo you have put up, looks like a ridge back / cross so not sure where that dog comes into your liking for pit types.
Hi Jackie, Yes your are telling the truth about the health testing in some shows. But it's hard to find a real working pitbull in those shows as far as I can see. Most of them are bread for their look and yes the most relevant tastings regarding health (hd etc.) were done. But what's with the abilities of the dogs? I like dog sports and most of the dogs (not all that's true) aren't able to climb walls anymore. The best example is the American bully, why do they oversized the stafford that much? This one for example doesn't look that athletic and near to his origins as this And their origin is that, far away from the first one it seems? (Colby's Jerry) It's how they was build in the beginning. And I think they are looking amazing. I would also prefer a old tyme stafford like in the black and white picture above and not the pitbull, but it seems that the staffords are all go into the muscular front and broad head show direction: The picture in the other post was from Diane Jessup, a working pitbull breeder (wrote a book 'The working pit bull') see more on: http://www.workingpitbull.com/DIRKPedigree.html For his pedigree So that's why I'm searching for the right breeders and kennels and registrations for the athletic old time type.
Hi and welcome to dogsey. If you live in Germany then you would probably already know that importing pit bull terriers, am staffs, bull terriers and staffies and any crosses of these breeds are illegal so getting one of those dogs would be pretty impossible. There are many different staffie 'types' out there but they're just fancy names that don't mean anything. I don't think the irish staffordshire bull terrier is a recognised breed, perhaps a bit like the 'king staffie' which is just a big stafford or stafford cross. It's a shame that staffies are on breed lists in so many countries.. and I'm not sure what they do in the US but over here most of them are healthy, normal sized individuals (apart from mine, she's a runt). Oh and the american bully isn't an oversized staffie, they originate from heavy pit bulls and mastiffs, I don't think there's any staffie in them. Anyway, I'm not sure what exactly you are looking for if not trying to get an 'irish staffie' which is impossible..?
Hi Florence, In my opinion all the amstaffs and pitbulls and American bullies have their roots in the staffordshire bullterrier, at least in his ancestors before they were kc registered. So that's what I meant with oversized staffies, maybe I had to say oversized bull and terriers (lot more bull and other stuff then terrier :/ ) Thank you also for reminding me of the difficulties to get those breeds but there are workarounds. I think the irish staffie is, if you get in touch with the right breeders, an old type staff who's arraign the idea of bewaring the working type. It's not a breed itself that should be clear but a type that's more suitable to me then the other ones bred for no real function, becoming smaller (pocket staffs) or getting legs like tree trunks lol.
Yeah there are workarounds.. you can declare your dog as a lab/boxer cross or something! I have never seen a real difference between show staffies and 'working' staffies. The job of the staffie has become extinct (thankfully) as dog fights are now illegal, so nowadays staffies are bred for companionship. They are called the nanny dog because they are excellent with kids and people in general. When saying that staffies are not bred for real function then yeah, you're right but that does not mean they're not healthy etc. I'm wondering what 'function' the irish staffie is supposed to be bred for.. because the working type surely would be the fighting type, as that is the origin of the breed. All staffies that I've encountered here look healthy, well proportioned and agile. I've never seen one with 'trunk legs' or anything like that. When getting and irish staffie, you're probably getting a cross breed, most likely with pit bull or amstaff so indeed it's just a staffie type and not a staffie. But I wish you all the luck to find your ideal companion! If you are looking for a staffie, please consider adopting one from a shelter, as there are thousands of lovely staffies waiting for a good home..
Hm I agree with you about this fighting thing and I don't support gaminess tests etc. but I like this breed because of their fitness, and I want to push my dog every day for example on the springpole, with tennis balls, in climbing swimming and diving. I saw some amazing videos of rescue dogs diving some meters in depth and that's fantastic. They simply do their job. I want to do agility and that's not really possible with the small pocket show ones that's why I prefer the leggy and leaner ones with better definition of muscles. They are very common in the USA for rescue and police tasks. They have a good nose, so some people are using them for badger hunting and call them gamey, often misused when some people are talking about dog fighting. Great dogs!
My dog is quite small, pocket size as you say, but she's actually brilliant at agility. Smaller staffies tend to be better because they have to jump smaller jumps, while bigger staffies might qualify for the large category and they'd have to do the same jumps as collies and shepherds but are a lot heavier than those dogs, they tend to be less successful. I still don't know what you mean by 'small pocked show ones' as I have yet to encounter a staffie that isn't agile and fit. In regards to pushing your dog, staffies are very excitable and if you do too much exercise and ball throwing with them they tend to get hyper excited and aren't able to wind down. That's where they get so stressed out that they look like they've got too much energy (because they can't seem to calm down) but in fact they're over stimulated and over excercised. I'm just saying that because when I got Ella I thought she needed loads of excercise and training but in fact it winds her up too much. She doesn't get along with other dogs as she was never socialised with them (she's a rescue) and if I do too much with her she gets so wired it makes her more reactive. I've stopped doing clicker training with her because it's exciting her so much that she can't concentrate on it anymore. I've also had to stop throwing her ball for her for too long because she gets into a frenzy about it. I do more calm, natural mind games now like searching and tracking, which tires her out mentally and physically, and she's a great little dog now.
Thank you for sharing this experiences. I don't want to be understand wrong but I like the leggier ones more then the short ones (what doesn't mean that I dislike them.. In my flat there are running 2 pugs and a chihuahua haha) Could some on rename my thread since it's now in the breeds section? 'Old tyme staff irish blue breeders and infos'
