Question for the Springer owners. Questions

I'm researching springers with a view to getting a pup (working springer) in the future. So far, I've found only the one breeder that tests for :

Hip/Elbow score
KC/BVA Eyetest and Gonioscopy
Fucosidosis (DNA)
Progressive Retinal Atrophy cord 1 (DNA)
PFK deficiency (DNA)

Though I've found quite a few who perform the eye & DNA tests.

So my question is (a delicate matter), were the parents of your pup health tested, and which tests were performed? (If they were tested, which kennel were they from)?)

On the one hand I can see the argument that proven working dogs wouldn't be able to perform their work if they weren't healthy, but on the other hand if the breeder doesn't test then they don't know.

While we're at it, how about a pic of your dog and where they're from.

I'll start:

Sophie, given up by her owner, then given up by her "new owner" less than 24 hrs later - fostered and re homed by me (though if she came to me now I'd keep her, the time wasn't right back then).

I'll be honest my pup was from a farm, she is now 7 and we've never had any problems with her, and does do a full days work, would i buy a pup from untested parents again,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, No, i now know better

This is Meg


_MG_0499 by jalizcazan, on Flickr

The others are all Rescues.

Millie, bad hips and a bent femur, probably more due to neglect as a pup (spent her first 6 months shut in a cupboard in her own mess) the only one of the full springers that has really had health issues, she's 8 now, but we have had a few close calls with her


_MG_0151 by jalizcazan, on Flickr

Molly - she was a stray so know nothing about her, she is now 6, she's never really been ill just grass seeds.She has two speeds, hunt or stop


_MG_0227 by jalizcazan, on Flickr

And finally out of the full springers Neam, she came from quiet a well known gundog kennel in the North east that has now given up, i'm pretty sure he didn't health test,, but he did breed very succesful, field trialers and working springers, unfortunately in his quest to breed flashy white dogs there is far too much Rytex in Neam and she is very nervy which is a rytex trait, many working gundog breeders now are trying to get away from rytex lines for that reason

_MG_0089 by jalizcazan, on Flickr

Some lovely pics Lizzy, thanks for posting.

You might be surprised (or even shocked) at what you find. I spent some time looking at (listed in no particular order and not an exhaustive list):

Mordor
Poolgreen
Sealpin
Lagganmill
Buccleuch
Edgegrove
Lowforge
Rothievale

I haven't looked up all the dogs from each kennel, but I've tried looking up the health test results on the KC site and not had many results returned. Those that did return a result did so for only one or two tests (usually eye test).

Sgurr do all six tests, Craigethrie seem to do eyes and the 3 dna tests.

I'm not having much success in my search for a fully health tested pup!

i wouldn't be surprised i know they don't test, i would go for a breeder i know and trust , i hjave a friend who is just going through the process of testing her dog, who is from Miliscer gun dogs, i also know his mum and dad, who were also tested on hips/elbows and PRA clear, she will only sud him to a proven working bitch that also does those tests, on the other side i know someone who bought a working cocker from fully tested parents who had nothing but health issues. Yes you do reduce the risk, but you don't get rid of it all together

The one good thing about all of those kennels is at least they are doing some tests, and they probably won't sell you a pup unless you're going to work them, unlike the majority of people breeding working springers and then sticking them in pet homes.

Brilliant photos Lizzy!

Thanks Moobli

My first working Springer was originally my brother's dog (he was a gamekeeper) but when he changed jobs and moved to Ireland he was working a lot more with sheep and doing less shooting so Beau was given to me. I can't remember what the breeder's name was but he came from a kennel near Castle Douglas. I've still got his paperwork somewhere so can't answer what tests were done off the top of my head.

My next working Springer (Fingal) just came KK registered from the farm next door. Parents both worked as did his siblings but I'm not aware of any health tests.

Both Beau and Fingal were mainly Rytex & Badgercourt lines which there's another thread about.

Beau 1984-1996




Fingal 1999-2012

Now there's a conundrum in itself!

I could actually go to the breeder that bred Sophie... I'm sure it would be a fine dog Sophie was great), but I haven't got it in me to hand money over to a breeder that lists 8 stud dogs on their site - one of whom has sired 6 litters this year, and has has had 8 litters this year (since Jul).

There's someone listed on the KC site (as well as the free sites) advertising a litter which has 43 FT champions in the pedigree (Rytex & Badgercourt). I e-mailed asking the names of the sire and the dam and if it was possible to see the pedigree. Response:

Hi,

I am not willing to send any of that information on here but you are more than welcome to come and see the pups at any time and i can show you their papers then

Oh dear, I'm starting to rant... I'd better go and look at yours and Phil's lovely pics again

Lovely pics Phil.

Would you consider a show type springer with all the health tests done, over a working without?

It is possibly a similar situation to that with border collies. The ISDS stipulate that registered parents must have clear eye tests in order to be able to register the litter with them. However, there are no other stipulations. Most working bred collies do therefore have their eye tests done, but not hips etc.

The show people do seem to do more health checks than the working people.

Speaking only for collies (as I don't have springers) I would still choose the working bred dog over the show.

So would i, rightly or wrongly. however i would like the parents to be hip and elbow scored and PRA clear, which the breeder i would like one from would do,

No - I'm not interested in the show type.

I'm finding a few that do the 3 DNA tests and eye test, though not hip/elbow, so it appears similar, though the champ dog site lists 64 breeders of working springers, but only 15 that perform any health tests.

I think I agree - many of (what appears to be the ) big name gun dog kennels don't seem to perform any tests (on the springers). But, there seems to be many owners "home breeding" their working springers without necessarily knowing if they've got working quality dogs.

I have a fully health tested bitch. She has a very low hip score, 0 elbow score, clear eye cert, pra cord 1 clear, fuco and pfk clear. But I will not breed from her, because I can't guarantee that I would be able to find working homes for all of the pups. She is most definitely not suitable for a pet home and I don't think any of her puppies would be either.
There are more and more fully health tested working springers out there now. There is even a facebook group called Fully Health Tested Gundogs. Might be worth having a look.

I looked them up, they seem to do eyes/dns tests, but not hip/elbow, which seems to be the norm for those that test.

Dogsey won't let me type the site. PM me if you need more info.

I got Callum as a pup from a friend who breeds his working springers for working gundogs and SAR dogs


Hector I got as a 12 week old pup from rescue


Neither were tested both as fit as fiddles and I would definitely take one from my friend again as have seen a few generations all of whom are fit healthy dogs and live on til 15+

Would do the same as Liz and buy from folk I know or recommendations from trusted sources. Would take on rescue too as we have a number of rescues who have gone onto work.

Michael are you looking for a pup to work, or a pet, because if it is for a pet, you will have more trouble finding a decent kennel to sell to you, we have been half looking because Meg is 7 next year, a new pup will take a couple of years to be ready for the field, we have looked at Buccleuch ,who wouldn't he's the spaniel champ, but his list is closed until next March and you have to justify in writing what you want a pup for.

I've been casually looking at Working Type Springers and Cockers and am noticing they don't seem to be health tested.

We have a working type Springer, he is a rescue, found as a stray, but just the sort we like.

Have you had a look at this kennel? http://www.sgurr.org.uk/index.php
They are the only fully health tested springers I know in Scotland.