"Goldendoodle.." Controversial

So many speak of crosses as if they are breeds... So many "labradoodles" here in Ireland. At a Fair, a large black lanky dog they assured me was a "goldendoodle" as if this is a breed.

It looked as if the various parts did not go together.

These crosses are being bred deliberately.

I have a "russet"; JRT Basset cross. Accidental.

Sad isn't it?

I had someone tell me their dog was a "Chug" the other day. Apparently it was a Pug x Chihuahua.

i find it very sad when people tell you their crosses are " a breed" it goes to show just how little they research they've actually done on the cross.

And people believe them.. the "goldendoodle" was on a fundraising stall for training dogs to work with autistic children.
"never heard of that breed" and they went away thinking they had lerned something.
On the other side, I saw a huge white dog outside Tesco in Kerry and asked the young woman about it. She refused to use the term "labradoodle" and the dog was a rescue. Sadly many of these crosses are turning up in rescues.

Our wee cross is charming but I wiould never dream of making that cross by choice.

They're names given to a dogs that are of a recognisable or certain 'type'

Whether we like it or not, there are a large number of people who own or are interested in these types of dog (you could argue that has increased greatly since the expose on pedigree dogs).

Technically a breed is:

What I think we (as responsible dog people) should do is not censor or disparage others for the choices they make (because that gets us nowhere), but help educate them by knowing exactly what they are getting and what the risks might be and if they still want to get such a dog, that's their choice - but hopefully they will be a little more discerning and clued up when it comes to where they buy from.

Personally I would most definitely consider getting a specific cross, as I believe the gene pool in many breeds is not wide enough - especially in some breeds.

Very well said, Azz.

Except the gene pool is plenty big enough in many of the breeds that make the most popular 'Doodle' crosses. Labradors and Cocker Spaniel's are two of the most popular breeds in the country and are not exactly lacking in numbers.

The reality is that the overwhelming majority of these Doodles types are bred for money and not through concerns of widening the gene pool and producing healthier dogs.

Actually by mere definition, breeds that breed true to type already have a limited gene pool - which is highlighted by the lack of variation in offspring (ie they look almost like clones of their parents, their 'breed') you only get that when you have a narrow gene pool.

It's not *just* about genes either - some people prefer the look/shape/whatever of certain crosses or 'designer types'. We may not (or might!) but it's their choice at the end of the day - they could easily chastise us for buying pedigree dogs which they might argue is causing massive problems in the dog world - re health, etc.

Live and let live - but if you can, help others get a better understanding of what they're getting in to

Couldn't agree more, Azz.

Any good and responsible breeder will be shaking their head at this
A good breeder traces the bloodlines back for at least six generations. Selects care fully and caringly to screen out genetic faults. To avoid the problems that you mention.

These crosses that people think are registered and recognised breeds ( which is the definition of a breed) are haphaxard and irresponsible.There is no genetic screening . oh by the way the "goldengoodle " was a cross between a golden retriever and a poodle.

Labs and others have a strong tendency to certain health problems that are genetic. This is not being recognised with these fads for novelty, and that si what this is about, fads and novelty.

They will go on to breed from these crosses with no genetic counselling or care. haphaard and irresponsible and the "failures"are ending up in refuges.

All who know and love dogs need to take heed of these issues. We are responsible for our critters. Live and let live indeed!

I chatted with a man who had a cross; small dog and the exact cross escapes me but he had a fancy name for it. It was bred for fad and he had not had the dog neutered. " Well if I see a dog I like I will mate him" Total ignorance

This is why the Kennel Clubs take so long to recongise a breed. There are standards and precautions

Who says cross-breeders can't do that? A good breeder is a good breeder, and cross breeders could actually argue they add something that pedigree breeders seldom can - a wider gene pool. Whether they actually do that or not is another matter altogether tho!

I agree with some of your other comments, that some people think these breeds are 'official', 'registered' or 'recognised' etc, and yes it seems that often (but not always) you get a more lax attitude from some of the owners of these breeds - which is probably down to education as I mentioned earlier (although you could also equally assert you get more BYBs/puppy farmers in pedigrees as they generally sell for more - indeed you could easily get an idea by visiting the free ad sites and see which 'breeds' pop up most often).

There is good and bad in everything, and different rights and wrongs in both. Neither worlds are perfect.

With regards to breeds you have:

_______Breeds_______
___|____________|___
Purebreeds___Crossbreeds

Then you have those with pedigrees (the longer the better) and those without - but neither are mutually exclusive to one type (tho you usually do find purebreeds with pedigrees... apart from in the cases of many BYBs). (And of course the same applies to testing/good breeding practises etc)

Excellent post

When I was looking for a poodle puppy, the vast majority of litters I found were poodle crosses - mostly labradoodles and cockapoos but a large number of other breeds too.

I met someone who had what I took to be a mongrel with a bit of labrador in it. She proudly told me it was a labradoodle. Turns out its father is a labradoodle belonging to a neighbour of mine (beautiful dog - mother lab, father poodle) and its mother is another labradoodle. But the resulting litter is nothing like a first cross lab/standard poodle. Still, she's happy with it.

And I must say the cockapoos around here are fantastic little dogs.

These names are ridiculous ...cockapoo! Poor dog! How anyone can take this seriously defeats

And yes, to the poster who made the comment that these fads are for money and nothing else. So the "breeders" can sell the mongrels and call them some fancy name.

The results are wildly unpredictable also.

Reading some of these posts makes me deeply thankful for the good breeders I know and for Kennel Club rulings whoch are so much about genetic health and breeding oput eg dysplasia and also temperament problems,.

The world is full of unwanted mongrels and does not need more. Far better to take from a pun than add to the dog population.

ALL dogs are great; they deserve far better and more responsible care than this. Far more care that breed faults do not get perpetuated by irresponsible money seekers

What a lot of those who defend these crosses don't understand is that pedigree breed types are bred a certain body shape for a reason, I'm not saying that things haven't happened where some breeds have become unhealthy because of their body shape, and what was functional has gone past that, causing health problems. But take for instance Labradors and poodles, if the knee joint of a Labrador is too upright, it is more prone to cruciate injuries. I would imagine that standard poodles will be similar, in that they are of a similar size and construction at the back end. So what happens when you cross them? What sort of construction will you get? And that's with two similar breeds, what on earth are you going to get with a chug or puggle, or some of the more bizarre crosses, barshei's?

I've heard recently of a few health issues that are cropping up in particular cross breeds, it seems that cockerpoos are prone to juvenile kidney disease, and pug crosses can be prone to deformities in their lower jaw and front limbs, some of the images in the link are disturbing:

http://www.puggles.me.uk/blog.html

The only *good* cross breeders I know who health test and consider how the conformation of the dog might look and affect health, are those who breed dogs for a purpose, ie competition, or to work, and they are usually proven cross types. It simply isn't good enough to think up a name for a new breed because it sounds good, and then breed for it, whether you health test or not, what happens when you realise you've produced progeny that will suffer because you didn't really think about the effects of putting together two completely differently constructed breed types?

Ohh..whilst we are on the subject of 'oodle' dogs....a customer told me yesterday why some of them shed....
Are you ready for this........

If you are crossing a poodle with a dog that sheds...the Mum has to be the poodle and the dad has to be the one that sheds, otherwise all the pups will shed! Doing it this way is the only way to guarentee a non shedding pup!

The KC advise this too dontchaknow!

And I've just been told that the reason standard poodles are so big is that they are used for hunting lions.

Don't get me started on 'Goldendoodles' Apparently they 'only need grooming twice a year and have an easy to manage coat' Oh and be very careful choosing your groomer as all groomers 'take them too short' I read it in an (now ex) clients book. Yeah we take them short because they are matted to the skin because the owner doesn't want to pay out to have the dog groomed every 4 weeks or so at a large cost.

yeah i seen one resembled a "puli"

Boy, do you all get wound up! I really don't give a hoot what 'breed' or 'notbreed' my gorgeous goldendoodles are viewed as. We got them because we love them - end of!! If this is all I am going to read on here, I won't bother to stay with the thread. Silly me - I thought it was a thread for goldendoodle owners/lovers!!