GSD movement in slow motion Videos

Who is WE I have also owned (apart from one lurcher) only German Shepherds. Had my first Dhepherd in 1951 so I've owned shepherds for over 60 years now & I much prefer the modern shepherd.Love the change & consider it in no way detrimental As for health, back then a lot of dogs had back problems. Cancer killed many dogs then, epilepsy was rife & while some dogs lived to a good age many died in the nest so only the fittest survived to adulthood. Also I think it was in the seventies that Champion Bonnie Prince Charlie was beimg shown & if you want low to the ground back legs & a long ski slope of a back look no further.

WE, is obviously.. NOT YOU!!

Can I ask do you know why the change came about? I remember (but cant bloomin find it) a thread Patch posted on ages ago with a old copy of the GSD standard which asked for a straight back - then the more modern one changed
What was the reason for the change? Who was responsible for it? Have there been any energy and motion studies done on the new shapes movment compared to the traditional type? What are the lifespans of these new shapes?

I dont deny there has been problems with the breed in the past - and no way am I wanting to go back to the high incidences of HD - but they way the dogs look now and the speed the change has come about has really saddened me
Also in the past 10 years or so I am seeing more and more snappy vocal agressive nervose GSD's compared to the dogs I used to see about when I was a kid in the 80;'s (not blaming show breeders for that - just an observation about the breed around the place just now - sloping backs and hottible tempraments)

I would also love to know why the changes came about and the purpose for them.

A lot of the changes came about when the kennel Club changed the standard to be nearer the standard in Gernany. Obviously they had started as the same dog but through the 60s & 70s dogs in Britain moved further & further from their German counterpart. Then came the tragedy of a couple of Best In Show winners at Crufts. I say tragedy because it made the dog too popular. It became a status symbol to own a GSD & instead of most dogs being bred ny recognised breeders who were trying to breed better dogs there was a huge explosion of people jumping on the bandwagon & breeding any dog to any bitch & selling them to the person who would pay most. At this time sadly the standard said the dog should be suspicious of strangers & many of these same people felt it meant it was alright for the dog to be nervous agressive.
One thing I do wish we could revert to from older days is the walking of dogs into stance rather than the moulding by the handler which again came from the continent I believe. However this is my personal opinion.

look again:





these dogs are no more collapsing on their hocks than the Whippet is



or indeed than this type of GSD ( and personally I dislike that saggy topline every bit as much !! )





How can one be condemned as " clearly and very sadly within a few years will be cripples." when the other is seen as 'normal' ...it's just illogical !

Don't get me wrong ...personally I like my dogs to be a natural dog shape but heck LOADS of folk don't, exaggeration is popular - that's why Pugs outsell Schiperkees , why Bulldogs outsell Buhunds and why GSD outsell BSD....dog breeds are not 'natural' they are a man made conceit and we have and do breed them into a hugely diverse and ever changing range body shapes - I truly fail to see that the Germanic type of GSD is any more 'unnatural' a dog shape than a Dachsund, Leonberger or Chihuahua ..if the GSD's shape is wrong for a dog then so are many many others

as to why the GSD has changed over the years... ...it's simple .....it's because people LIKE them that way their construction makes for a more impressive dog when being gaited at speed - you can see the same thing happening in other breeds where 'flash and dash' is valued more than proper working construction

Brilliant post ;-)

Yes bijoul, many others are wrong too - but this thread is talking about GSD's
Pointing and saying other things are wrong does not change the fact that the origonal thing is wrong

Cruelty of conformation - breeding dogs whos lives are so limited as some dogs are is imo cruelty and people should be being charged for it - not winning ribbons

Yes dogs have been adapted by humans - but that dosent mean we shouldnt be aware of what we are doing to them and remember first and foremost that they are dogs




dogs should be able to stand, move at all paces, see, close its eyes, close its mouth, jump, breathe, breed
naturally without being impared by its shape, skin or hair

Thankyou for that
So why did Germany change in the first place? Both the UK and the German dogs up till the 50's did not have the bendy backs and walking on their hocks

Really sad about the temprament

Surely the issue is with the movement though? The whippet may have a similar looking back end but do it's back legs wobble all over the place when it moves? I'd bet not.

Show whippet in slow motion

compare that the the clip at the start of the thread - the whippet is lovely and light, up on his toes, hocks well off the floor - his backside is higher than his elbow
Not so with the GSD
So you they might have looked similar but their shape has been evolved from the dogs who moved the fastest - not created by what humans think it should look like

Form follows function

I have to ask - how is everyone concluding that the dogs collapse on their hocks (or are down on their hocks) through the photos posted? A genuine question, my friends in the show fancy and with a knowledge in conformation can predict movement based on structure, a skill I've always been incredibly impressed with.

For those disparaging exaggerated rears, sloping toplines, and weak/downed hocks, I would love your opinion on the following and why you feel that way compared to the images already shown of the German show line dogs:



vs.



vs.

You and me, both! Although I'm still waiting to get past these infamous teenage years

It is embarrassing for me to even think about how completely and adamantly I once subscribed to the general policy of Right and Wrong: Dog World Edition LOL

Ben, that was a very informative post! I don't have the knowledge or expertise that you do, so I'll be sure to keep that post handy so I can re-read and better understand the science/mechanics behind it all.

That said, reading the start of your post made me think immediately of my own dog's granddam. She was born in early 2001 and is over 11 1/2 years old now. She's healthy and doing great as a retired competition/breeding dog now.

She had her last and most recent litter a few years ago, at 9 years old. It wasn't double digits then, but she had a lovely litter of 5 and looked healthy and happy as any 2 year old!

From the breeder's website, her at 9 years old with her new litter of puppies -



She is West German working lines with a fair amount of East German working lines thrown in. Here she is around 4 to 6 years of age.



Her daughter, my dog's dam, will be 8 in November and last I heard, is still being trained in Schutzhund. I had received a few photos of her as well from her owners/handlers but would have to dig through me e-mail for that.

I also have a friend who owns an 8 1/2 year old male from a mix of German show, German working, and American show lines. He works as a service dog and is kept very busy and on his feet all day, in addition to the conditioning and training he gets.

Admittedly, my dog's granddam is the only dog I know over the age of 10, but I am new to the "dog world" and outside of the (already few) people and dogs I know in the breeding/sport/performance/working dog community, I only know of 3 German Shepherd in person, and they are all within 2 to 3 years of age. To be honest, besides the dogs listed, I think I can count on one hand the dogs I know over the age of 5 years. Wow!

Hi Voraus, i can't speak for anyone else but im specifically talkibg about the videos Ben McF posted of GSDs in this thread - not the pics Arantuas put up

I see - I'm on my old laptop right now and it's always had issues loading videos, so that must be why I didn't make the connection. I'm too accustomed to my conformation-smart friends glancing at a single picture and dissecting the functional implications of a dog's structure and predicting a dog's movement just right.

Plus, I admit to having skimmed the last 11 pages. It's 3 AM here across the pond!!

I'm just the opposite ... back then I was a complete wimp, shy and wouldn't say boo to a goose!!

I know of many dogs of over 10 who are fit & active. In deed it is the reason my breeder friend sometimes rehomes her oldies as she has a one house dog rule & as they usually live to 14 or 15 some dogs don't get a chance to cone in the house before they die,
My youngest bitch to die (apart from the one who was poisoned) was 11 my oldest to date nearly 16 & still at that stage able to walk & jump in my car & yet in the 90s she had the shape you say means she must have been a cripple.
Now bexause I am disabled I take on older rescues who have to be over 10 & I have had to say no to several recently because they are too energetic & pull too much on the lead & need more walkikg & activity than I can give them.

and I totally agree !

Amen to that!