Are cockers named after the cocking bird? Discussions

And that's why I think the Woodcock story is more plausible.
Again, no one is saying it was bred soley for Woodcock, just that it got a reputation for being better at it and so bred with that in mind.

I can't see any difference at all, but then with the working types it's sometimes difficult to tell the breeds apart let alone see a difference in how they work!

So how is the working cocker, better in your experience, at flushing woodcock, than a springer, field, clumber, sussex or welsh?

Really? I honestly have had no problem telling them apart.

Interesting thread

I don't think it is anymore, hence my reply below....

The way I see it it's all historical and open to debate, but if the breed was called the Cocker because of it's different action, then why does no one know exactly what the "Cocking" action is? Surely if the difference in action was important enough to give the breed it's name and split it away from the Springers, the reasoning behind it would've followed it through to the present time? The Setters are so called because they derive from the Setting Spaniels, Pointers Point, Field Spaniels worked the land (and are believed to be the absolute original Spaniel by some), Water Spaniels the water, Cockers well, erm......

That's why I prefer the Woodcock historical tale, it's far more plausible imo.

Just chatting with the OH, springers were apparently originally used to spring game into nets, he's going to look up where the reference to *cocking* comes from, I may have to remind him as I've asked him a couple of times previously!!

Not often obviously, but there are times when the only real give away between the two is the white on the Springer!

So if there's no difference in what they flush and retrieve, why aren't all spaniels called cockers?

Field spaniel was the term that covered all terms for spaniels. Clumbers and Sussex were developed separately, as were a few more that we've lost since. Springers and cockers were from the same litters originally, and decided on by weight, some spaniel afficionados won't touch certain lines because of the influence of one or the other lines, in there.

I dont see how the bit in bold tallies with the theory that cockers and springers became named by the way they work game. If they were derived from the same litter and decided on by weight, then surely they would all work basically the same, or possibly some larger ones 'cocked' and some smaller ones 'sprung'

I think you make a very good point, if cocker refers to an action it would seem more likely that the reference to what cocker is would be more obvious.......

So if they weren't named by the way they worked game, how come the name cocker is supposedly derived from the game they were bred to work?

If you don't know the difference between working cockers and springers, then, like me, you could be forgiven for confusing the two, they are similar, but very different at the same time. Cockers work a much tighter area, and have a very distinctive action in comparison to springers, which are much more free ranging in comparison.

Is that a serious question? Why aren't all Setters just called Setters and Pointers called Pointers, retrievers called Retrievers?

Why aren't Spaniels called Cockers? Because Springers Spring, Cockers were split due to their efficiency at working Woodcock, Sussex are from Sussex, Clumbers are from Clumber. The breeds split mainly either due to their place of birth or the way they worked.

Field Spaniels, as I said previously, are thought to be the original Land Spaniel by many. This then gave us the Springing Spaniels and the Setting Spaniels. The Setting Spaniels became Setters and the Springing Spaniels became Springers, which eventually split in to Springers and Cockers. Like I said, if the "Cocking" action was so important to give the breed it's name then we would still know the reason to this day imo, as with most other breeds.

Cockers are so called because they "Cock"? Nah, I don't buy it!

You don't have to buy it, I ain't selling it ;-)

The ones I've seen certainly don't!

It's a good job, cos in the words of Dragons Den "I'm out!".

Working, or at field trials? If at field trials, they will stick to a tight area and work closely in front of the handler. If out working, they can range far and wide the same as any dog, the OH has his out on the grouse, and they have attracted many comlimentary remarks, although none have as yet, retrieved a woodcock, I hope that doesn't count as a failure on their part ;-)

Well considering you have yet to persuade me that the term relates in any way shape or form to woodcock, then I too am out, it works both ways ;-)

Hey, i'm simply surmising! I dont claim to know much about spaniels, i'd simply read that that the split was down to the type of game they were used on.

Besides, i've already been involved in one argument about dog breeds where nobody understood the point I was attempting to make (and now i'm doubting there ever was a point!) so I refuse to be drawn into another

The last time we had woodcock I asked who retrieved it and he said "me"

I must have rubbish cockers!

Arent Woodcock supposed to have an odd taste or something? I've heard that many dogs dont like retrieving them.

But this is exactly it with cockers, there are two theories, neither have an exactly 100% correct answer, so surely it's up to the individual which they decide they believe after doing their research?