Are cockers named after the cocking bird? Discussions

I'm certain I read this somewhere but apone doing some google searches I found a number of birds under this name but they were a completely different species.

Did I imagine this fact on The Kennel Club site?

I ask because now I can't find this on the kennel club or breed club or find anything on any bird by this name.

I'm doing a bit of extra research for the fun of it.

Am I right in thinking it has something to do with Woodcock? The smaller spaniels were used to flush and retrieve woodcock, the larger spaniels for pheasants etc, hence springers and cockers became separate breeds based mainly on size....?

Completely spot on Leanne.

Thats what I have always been led to believe.

As for a cocking bird, I dont know what that is, never heard of it, certainly not in the UK anyway.

Hmmmm, I'm not convinced about the woodcock theory, how on earth would you train a dog to flush a small migratory bird, and no other.

The other theory is the action, springers were trained to *spring* or flush game, and cockers were named after their action, and were known as the *cocking* spaniel.

Ask different people and you will get different answers to that one, ask those who work them and they aren't really hugely interested in as much as how well they work, whether they retrieve a woodcock or a goose ;-)

Yes, they got their name from Woodcock.

I always thought that Cockers got their name from the bird. When Springers and Cockers were all one breed they split off as the smaller of the "breed" were better at working Woodcock and so were named because of this. And the Springers stayed Springers!

You probably wouldnt train it to only flush woodcock, since the dog would flush various game, but it could only retrieve what was shot, and if the handler was after woodcock, thats what it would retrieve!

I'm well aware of *why* people think of the woodcock association, but cockers weren't, and aren't bred to retrieve just that bird, nor just that type of bird or game. I've seen cockers retrieve hares and one even had a very good go at a goose, but unfortunately couldn't quite cope with the ditch in his way. I'm not convinced a dog breed would be named after one migratory bird, when it's used to flush such a variety of game, I prefer the explanation that refers to the action of the dog. The OH prefers that explanation too. As I said, ask any variety of people and you will get a variety of answers, there is no right answer in this instance, the reason is lost in history and there are a couple of old theories, that's all.

I personally don't think they were, or have ever, been bred just for that bird, more that they became better at working Woodcock due to the selection for that purpose. If a gamekeeper had primarily Woodcock in mind and had a small dog that was particularly good at that job then he would breed it to produce more of the same. Before you know it there is a strain of smaller Springers that have a reputation for being better with Woodcock than the larger ones. They're then given the name Cocker by their breeders and the rest, as they say, is history.

Can you explain what the cocking action looks like as I've never seen it?

The cocking action basically explains the cocker as different from the springer, the springers are more tail high, cockers are tail down, nose down, working like a suction cup.

The woodcock theory just doesn't wash with me, we have so many birds, I can hardly think the victorians thought to name a breed of dog after one small migratory bird when we have so many that the *spaniel* types are trained to flush and retrieve, and that's without mentioning ground game. How would a gamekeeper primarily have woodcock in mind? I don't know one gamekeeper that has them primarily in mind, with them being migratory, they are surely a bonus, and something you might expect from previous years, but not always guaranteed?

Lots of it is lost in history, but I prefer the idea of the cocking spaniel to one that is bred specifically to retrieve a species of bird, each to their own I suppose ;-)

I always thought that back within the origins of the breed (when I presume the name originated too), spaniels were not used to retrieve game, only to flush it? So the smaller dogs were used to flush ground dwelling woodcock rather than "spring" game like the springer?

I totally agree that nowadays, a cocker will easily retrieve much larger game rather than just one particular bird.

The gamekeeper was just an example, but I would imagine most get the point I was trying to make. I've seen lots of working type Springers and Cockers working and I can't see any difference at all?

How does the word "Cock" explain their action whilst working, that's the bit I'm struggling with. A "Springing" Spaniel is self explanatory, but a "Cocking" Spaniel??? Show me how it "cocks"!

What's the difference between springing and flushing game? I thought they were the same thing, springers were bred to spring game?

They are from such a close background sometimes it's difficult to distinguish, I haven't seen anything that persuades me that cockers were bred with the specific purpose of flushing woodcock, but having seen a few references to the *cocking* spaniel, I think I prefer that explanation, so far at least..... ;-)

Could be wrong but I thought the action referred to the "quick step" that cockers do over the long gait of the springers? Didn't know it had anything to so with the tail set. Interesting

I know, I'm not sure why there would be a difference there, but I was just musing that when the name came about, it wouldn't be referring to what the dog retrieves (as they weren't used to retrieve at that time).

Well if it was it's been bred out now cos I can't see any difference between the two breeds when working!

If you chat to anyone at all cocker related, they will quickly tell you how different the action is. If you watch a springer working the tail is high, a cocker tail is low, and as they work, they are like a suction cup, or should be, nose down tail down but moving to indicate whether they are onto something or not. What part of that is the *cocking* spaniel I don't know, but I am not convinced that the cocker is bred solely to flush woodcock, but am convinced more that because they are bred for a different action than the springer, that the name derives from that. There are different theories, so I guess you can read up and have your preference, depending on which you believe

I don't claim to be an expert, but I can see the difference between the two when they are working