Hello to all dog lovers - GSDs, many questions! Questions

Lupilu - have you had any more thoughts on your next GSD?

Apologies for my absence - away competing at the weekend then the last 3 days have been crazy busy and haven't had time to sit down at my computer.

First of all thanks to all who have offered advice - I've got a lot to think about but I'm also in a far more knowledgeable position than I was when I started.

A friend that I do agility with puppy walks for the Dyfed Powys police - she's now on her 8th police puppy so has quite a lot of experience! All the puppies she's had have come from Limasmythe: www.limasmythegsd.co.uk . They breed specifically for police but my friend knows of a number that have gone to active homes and are competing in agility. She says they're lovely dogs and thinks that I probably can't go wrong with one provided I get the right puppy. Does anyone have any knowledge or experience of these dogs?

Moobli, I've had a look at the WKD site and they look very much like what I've had in mind. I think I'll give them a call for a chat.

Does anyone know anything about Pepnick dogs? They don't seem to have much information on their site but they have the 'look' I like.
http://www.pepnick.co.uk

It seems that everyone who's had experience of WL shepherds can't praise them enough and doesn't see a problem providing they go into an active stimulating environment. Everyone else you seem to talk to says to be careful and avoid! Common sense dictates that I listen to those with experience rather than those talking from hearsay and prejudice. However, although I'm now very much inclined towards a WL dog and have had enough encouragement to feel that I can provide the right sort of environment for a happy companion, I feel, if only for my own education and satisfaction that I should find out more about the SL dogs.

I've been looking at Videx GSDs they have a huge amount of information on their site and seem very serious about health testing etc. It's hard to tell what the dogs are actually like from photos as they're all stacked. Does anyone have any knowledge of them?
www.videxgsd.com

Thanks again for all replies - will now go and look out some photos of my girls to post.

Pepnick dogs - they are beautiful. Off to look at the others now

I know many Limasmythe dogs and Pepnick dogs.

The Pepnick H litter is probably the most successful so far in Schutzhund and in the Police. All are strong dogs.

IME the sophistication and claims of websites are often in direct inverse ratio to the quality and achievements of the dogs/owners.

Many such kennels have no need to advertise heavily, litters are passed by word of mouth.

Videx are show lines.

Here are some pictures of my girls. Hope this works...




This is Dido:




Enfys:



Phoebe (aka Devil Dog of the Black Mountain):

Oops - seem to have got Dido twice. Here's Enfys (I hope!):

Smokeybear: Interested to note your (subtle! ) comment about websites. I'd had the same feeling myself. I'm aware Videx is a show breeder but I was wondering if anyone had any opinions about their dogs? Or do you think from what I've been saying that I should forget about show lines entirely and go for WL? I'm still trying to work out what's for the best and value your opinion.

You have lovely dogs, especially Dido

I have heard positive things about both Limasmythe amd Pepnick dogs but don't think I have met any.

If you do decide to go for a show line, have a look at the Conbhairean dogs, as I have been to that kennel, spoken to the breeder and met all their dogs - and they are fabulous. If I were after a showline dog, that is the kennel to which I would go.

I tend to follow my Grandmother's advice (generally speaking) ie "If you cannot say anything nice, say nothing at all"

If you are looking at a show kennel then I can personally recommend Antilli, seen the dogs both show and work and Carol and Alyson are lovely people and were pioneers in showing their home bred dogs in the German Sieger etc.

Have met a couple in Working Trials and their temperaments are also very good. They rigorously health test too.

http://antilligsd.com/

I didn't mind seeing Dido twice at all! Oh they are such lovely dogs (GSDs)

Here is my dogs pedigree...

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=698776

His dad is one of the Pepnick H litter and on his mums side is Limasymthe.

I am very happy with him, he is clever and biddable and sweet and affectionate. He does have a fairly high defence drive which I have to keep in check but I have really had very little problems with him. He is my boy...

He sounds awesome - can you post a picture, or is there one somewhere already? Thanks for putting the link to the pedigree I'm beginning to recognize some of the names and lines and it's beginning to be not quite so much of a black art!

Can I ask about his defense drive - how does this manifest and how do you deal with it? My girls are very laid back and 100% reliable in all situations: other dogs, people, kids, crowds etc., (so far anyway!) and I'd be interested to hear how you cope. I have a friend with a big brave protective boy and she's always a bit worried about him because he often feels the need to 'correct' other dogs for infringement of his rules i.e. coming into his space or too near his mum, completely fine with people though.

Thank you.

Dido is magnificent, such a big bear of a girl and the kindest most big hearted loving dog you could ever hope to meet. Trouble is she was not at the front of the queue when brains were being given out However I think her 'simpleness' is a great deal of her charm.

Enfys (=Rainbow in Welsh) is also a sweetie but is quite bonkers. We often say that she would have been better off as the only dog of a little old lady who would let her be a lap dog and feed her chopped liver off a china plate! She is quite nervous, although has never shown any aggressive tendency, and finds life a bit of a trial. Unlike Dido, she's very bright but is held back by her worries that something bad might happen any minute.

And then there's Phoebe. She was a really difficult puppy. Wouldn't bond, wouldn't respond to anything and just wanted to do her own (usually destructive) thing. To make a long story short, happily about 9 months ago I found a wonderful trainer who's helped me to read her and understand what she needs and what she responds to and I've learned so much. It's been a real baptism of fire but she's now a total pleasure to be with, fantastically responsive, obedient and devoted with a huge appetite for work and always up for anything. We're competing in obedience and agility - after only our 3rd open obedience competition we've placed second in pre beginners and 3rd in beginners

That is poor socialisation and training.

I have a "big brave protective boy" and I am NEVER worried about him because he looks to ME for leadership and how to behave.

Here are a couple of pictures...





Kofi is friendly with people and dogs, but he is kind of 'ever alert' - it's my fault, partly because I have always lived alone in isolated places with him and I haven't really corrected him for it.

Examples are....he is fine walking through a town and would be friendly with everyone, but in a quiet place (like a forest), he is ok if a man walks past but might react if the man stops and comes towards me (even in a friendly manner). If I was with someone and they started shouting at me, he would react immediately (as I recently learnt)

I'm just kind of careful of people approaching me in certain situations, and try and pre empt it. Like I say, it is my fault really but he does have quite a lot of natural defence, I just haven't controlled it enough.

He is also hypervigilant of my emotions and if he senses that I am uncomfortable with someone, if they try and touch me he puts himself between us and will physically move them away (not aggressively though). He does the same with my other dog, Shilah is scared of dogs and Kofi's watches interactions very carefully and will move the other dog away at the first sign of trouble.

Smitten
I am truly in love! What a wonderful, wonderful looking boy. I'm convinced now that this is just what I'm looking for.

Thank you for your forthright reply. I'm very grateful for the opportunity to 'hear it like it is'. I really want to make sure I fully understand and am as much as possible prepared for what I'm going to be taking on.

I think my friend's dog was a surprise to her in the same way that Phoebe was a surprise to me. She'd had other dogs including a gsd bitch and hadn't encountered this behaviour before and not being prepared for it didn't know how to deal with it. I think it's now become entrenched and she unwittingly exacerbates it because she tenses up every time she sees another dog which causes her dog to go on alert ... and on and on it goes.

I have had the sort of behaviour that Scout75 has talked about in all my GSDs to a certain degree, but NOT in my working line boy. That is why he is the dog of choice to go wherever I am going without a second thought He is actually very laid back and rather friendly and not aloof or suspicious of strangers at all (like my others have been). I love that about him, as it means he has the presence and "look" to make me feel confident on my own but is sociable enough to take anywhere.

Here is my lad

So many beautiful boys! He's a real stunner, keep these pictures coming and I'll have forgotten entirely about the SL look! Sorry Kofi, there's another boy in my life now

I'm interested to hear that your boy is the laid back one. Having only had girls, all of whom have been totally reliable in all circumstances, I had been wondering if the defense/protection behaviour was a male trait. Absolutely the most important thing for me above all else is to have a dog that I can take anywhere, any time and be completely confident in its behaviour. Although we live in a remote spot I want to be able to take my dogs into town, to shows, events and everywhere with me. I don't want to be in a position where I have to worry or even think about them possibly being a problem. Having said that, I've always put a lot of time and effort socializing them from day 1 - even poor nervy Enfys is fine, the only thing she does is stick herself to my leg if she finds things a bit much.

One of the things I think I have learned over the years is that temperament and nerve are genetic. If you have that as a base in your pup to work from, then you are well on the way to having the sort of dog you can take anywhere.

I have lived in rural/remote Scotland for the past six years and my bitch, who is now ten years, was well socialised in and around a busy town in North Lancashire - however, her temperament and nerve are a little windy. My "middle" shepherd was well bred and socialised (but not as much as I would have liked). He has a good temperament in many circumstances but is not 100% trustworthy - and appears to lack confidence in new situations. He is quite an aloof lad too and doesn't enjoy being around new people or dogs. My young WL who is now 15 months old came to me from a working dog kennel down South at 8 months. He had seen very little, other than the other working dogs, his breeder and her partner and yet his nerve is solid and strong, he is friendly with strangers, other dogs and the other animals on the farm. He is biddable and easily trained. He is an absolute joy - and is the reason I will always go for a WL from now on. Not to say that you cannot get some fabulous SL dogs. I did go and view a SL kennel and their dogs up here and was impressed with what I saw - however, I had already decided to go down the working line route by then.

I will add a few more photos in a bit - just off to have tea now