German Shepherd / Crufts Showing

I think most police forces would prefer the continential worklines if given the choice (unfortunately there are never unlimited funds for the purchase of new dogs).

I recalled a piece on the news a good few years back about police forces looking to ditch the GSD and use Malinois instead due to a lack of decent UK bred dogs for their work ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1151804.stm

This question could be applied to the majority of breeds we have today as most of them have changed in the last 50+ years.

Are breeds better now than they were in their early days?

Helen

I wonder, we would need to see health records of then to now to be able to say one or the other.

Better for what? For function? For the show ring?

Dogs are rarely worked in the job they were bred to do these days (of course, there are exceptions).

That's something you'll never see except maybe on a very minor scale. Veterinary data has never been nationally kept and collated so we can only guess

There really is no point debating this as many in the show fraternity will swear that black is white.

It's obvious to any impartial observer that the modern show German Shepherd is poorly constructed and could never do the kind of work they were developed for because of that. The comparison with other breeds developed for similar purposes is relevant, but more so a comparison with old photos of German Shepherds proves that the show fancy have changed this breed for their own twisted idea of what is beautiful.

It is no different in that sense from many many other breeds and it goes beyond those that have been picked out for having gone so far that it has health implications. I was looking at the staffies at Crufts - many of them resemble a miniature pig with a football shaped head and short muzzle - they lack the basic athleticism that would have been necessary for their original task. Similar observations could be made of maybe half the breeds on display with changes to breeds such as impractical profuse coats in breeds that were supposed to be workers to legs so short and deformed in some breeds that the animal is hardly off the floor to basic faults in construction.

To have a decent quality of life. It was a rhetorical question really, as of course we will never have the health records of 50 years ago.

I am certainly not niaive to think that all working dogs should have a working life. It isn't going to happen, and I personally, don't see that as a bad thing.

Helen

To my, very inexperienced eye, that seemed a bit "loose" when first walking, before the man jumps out. Maybe, I am just seeing something that isn't there as I'm used to a completely different gait. I could have been mistaken, but it certainly went low.

Helen

Based on what?

So most of the continental HPR's and working sled dogs, who are renown for their stamina and endurance, would not be able to "cover anywhere near the same amount of distance as a GSD" because they have straight backs?

And to show that I am unbiased (and am actually just trying to learn more about my chosen breed!) ... here is a working line dog with show line conformation. He also gets 98 points in his protection round - so is clearly fit for function (with a great attitude to work too!).

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=450116

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAjbXJ1kCQM

Sorry I was musing out loud .

I do agree with you and much as 'fit for function' sounds brilliant in theory, in practice would also mean drives so strong that in many breeds they would be unsuitable for pet homes.

I also don't subscribed to the theory that working dogs are necessarily all sound and healthy. We just don't see the mistakes because the dogs are disposed of before the 'faults' become apparent to a wider population.

I doubt that there are many who wouldn't say that in some breeds, changes have gone way too far. Hopefully, a wake-up call has now gone out and we'll start to see a reverse trend in some breeds, but I really hope that the reverse trend is carefully managed so as not to create more rather than less health problems.

I think Joedee might be referring to ground coverage within each breeds individual role. A GSD would be expected to cover ground in a very different way to a Labrador due to the nature of the role it was created for. Labradors kind of run, stop, run, stop, whereas I think the GSD was meant to be a living, moving fence (???) so had to be able to do a trotting gait constantly over long distances. That's how I understand it anyway.

Me too?..................

Yes that's the idea, the dog should be "off the forehand" and pushing forward from rear. IMO, *some* people have taken this too far in the show world and created some ridiculously wobbly back ends. As per many things in life, there is a good middle ground and then there are extremes that go both ways.

same as the level toplined/straight backed csv ;-)

What about the dalmation? Wasn't that bred to travel great distances, at a trot?

Helen

Looks like they went on a slight incline in the 40s then went pear shaped in the 70s & 80s. From a "Sloping back" perspective things seem to have improved.

Showing seems to often take things to extremes. Like size, head size/angle, chest depth, coat...Looks sometimes like people are trying to make them look like lions.

I get that but GSD's were not the only breed of dog who's original job required it to be on the move all the time. Yet no other breed of dog that I am aware of has a sloping backside?

Yep totally agree

Physically no

That would be interesting. Couldn't we find how long they lived? It wouldn't be a definitive study but interesting

Agree, the coat drives me batty, at least this year some were less feathered

agree totally with the last bit

Exactly, although it is an interesting argument that people are saying other breeds do the same job without the tilted pelvis, if done to moderation I don't haave a problem. With overangulation some of these dogs now cannot push from the rear

And, as with many other breeds, the standard should be read with common sense
If a dog is walking on his hocks that is not healthy, no matter what the standard says